FIFA 21 Discussion (Console Versions)

I don’t even know where to begin with this

The AI or lack of on both teams is a killer, the lack of awareness in all areas of 5he pitch is cheap.

They usually add extra animations and contextual animations, this game is the same as the last one in that respect.

No matter what you do if the AI wants to score it will (not limited to this years game)

Ypu cannot play how you want to, it’s about how the rigid AI wants to, it does not allow for multiple play styles, it just wants you to pass through the middle.

why have a player instruction which says get in behind when the player has the whole pitch to run into yet stands still.

Training drills slowing the game down, why?

This should be called Legacy Edition, awful awful awful
 
Do not expect changes in defense, because the community is divided. Offline users do not like the lack of consciousness of defenders and UT / Pro Players users enjoy manual defense. For this division they will not risk changing, unless a catastrophe happens.
 
I will sell FIFA 21 next week and PES 2021 on full manual will provide the football fix from time to time.

I really can't believe how weak FIFA are. I don't feel they are trying anymore.

A nice package overall. A lot of modes. Even small additions to a okay career mode and then we'll have the gameplay.

Trouble in the defense, yes. But the two biggest problems for me is that every game against AI is the same. Maybe the shot variation is better than in other games, but what does it mean when it's the same damn way I can score every time? Counter attack. Counter attack and counter attack. The joy of scoring is completely out. Completely.

The biggest problem... There isn't any challenge. It's the most easy game I have ever played. Tried with FC Köln in career mode. One of the less good teams in the Bundesliga. I've started without buying anyone and as easy as it can ever be I've won the first three with me scoring 4 times in each game.

Oh and there is no player ID whatsoever. I was close to furious about how much I was able to do with Duda, Modeste, J. Hector etc.

I won't spend a year being frustrated.
 
Do not expect changes in defense, because the community is divided. Offline users do not like the lack of consciousness of defenders and UT / Pro Players users enjoy manual defense. For this division they will not risk changing, unless a catastrophe happens.
Wow. Surely the concept of a football game somewhat resembling football isn’t too much to ask from EA. Any talk of giving us an on off switch? They can call it ‘Assisted defending’ if they need to!
 
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Using Matt10's slider and they do change the game up quite a bit, however i am now finding the game way too easy on legendary

The Marking slider seems to have a profound affect on the AI responsiveness. Not just in terms of its aggression to win the ball but in weird ways such as the AI's passing being all over the place. The AI also just doesn't track my attackers at all i am finding which leads to some very cheap goals as i can run down the wings and find 1-2 attackers in space in the box. I have never really used the sliders much so i am not sure why although my eyes are not deceiving me. I can dominate possession without really doing very much. Instead of 65/68 I've tired lowering it to 55/55 but the AI just goes back into killer mode and the midfield just goes AWOL. Trying to find a sweet spot to ramp up the challenge but also curb the underlying shit defending. Adjusting the marking slider appears to instantly switch from base poxy defending to the AI not being interested at all around the 63 mark.
 
Also noticing some strange goings on in Career Mode in relation to transfers. Apologies if someone else has already picked up on this in the thread.

Finished first season and the numbers of players that become free agents is very high. They also seem to become free agents throughout the season with new players popping up throughout my second season that were not there at the start in the transfer window. I can basically sign some decent players without having to dip into transfer funds.

Also, the loan system seems bugged. If i put a player up for loan i only receive loan to buy requests. If i go the cut scene and try to negotiate a loan only move the negotiations ends immediately. However, if i delegate and select the loan only option for a year, i then get a response back saying the agreement is in place for a 2 year loan period. I then try to go the negotiation cut scene to get this down to a year but only ever get the short term loan. Its pretty annoying.

Also, less transfer and loan offers all round this year. I am wondering whether this is due to the "strict" transfer policy i selected as an option when i started my CM.
 
Someone should mod those chicken socks in the game. I think they will look fantastic with the way players flap their little chicken feet in game.
The gif is a near perfect representation of agile dribbling! (If you could play it at double the speed)

chicken-leg-socks6.gif
 
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Captain Obvious here.

Haven't played it (and don't feel the need to) but the reaction to this game has been the penny dropper that 'eFootball FIFA' is a football-based game to service FUT and that it's dead until offline is given its own mode or, as is more likely but still not going to happen until monetisation is established, its own release at £50/60.

I've never felt more removed from the online crowd in my life than after seeing comments about the lack of AI defending. The conflation between defending and basic defensive positioning, and the hypocrisy between the insistence on user accountability when defending but not in attack - on or off the ball.

There's no argument to be had with the logic. No use arguing over directions when you're going to different destinations. So while they splutter off into the distance in their 2007 3 Series - with full body kits, tinted windows and fresh trims - I'm slumped in my humble Ford Focus. Sobbing.

As a collector I'll buy it one day. First second hand copy I see under a tenner. Given the offline response to the game, at this rate, I'll be giving you my impression in a month.
 
Do not expect changes in defense, because the community is divided. Offline users do not like the lack of consciousness of defenders and UT / Pro Players users enjoy manual defense. For this division they will not risk changing, unless a catastrophe happens.
We need someone to put together a literally 20-minute-video showing tons and tons of examples of your out-of-possession midfield doing literally nothing while the opponent runs past them and pumps every player forward in their attack.

If you show these guys (not just EA, but the online players) one example, they just say it's a one-off and you're shit at defending. If you show them 20 minutes of it happening over and over, they might begin to consider it an issue.

Looking at tweets like this, there are more than just a few who think defending has turned to shit:



Here's looking at you, @Matt10 - our long-time FIFA saviour and content creator...
 
We need someone to put together a literally 20-minute-video showing tons and tons of examples of your out-of-possession midfield doing literally nothing while the opponent runs past them and pumps every player forward in their attack.

If you show these guys (not just EA, but the online players) one example, they just say it's a one-off and you're shit at defending. If you show them 20 minutes of it happening over and over, they might begin to consider it an issue.p

Looking at tweets like this, there are more than just a few who think defending has turned to shit:



Here's looking at you, @Matt10 - our long-time FIFA saviour and content creator...

When reading all the "get good" answers at this supposed elite players, I doubt such a video would make those people change their mind. I also highly doubt they are actually able to watch any 20 mins+ video, their attention is probably too volatile.

The only hope is more elite players being unhappy with the defending situation.
 
The only hope is more elite players being unhappy with the defending situation.

This game is not designed with the offline crowd in mind and neither with the "elite" players/pro scene in mind. Even the best fifa player has openly said "no one enjoys this game":

https://www.sportbible.com/football...r-says-no-one-enjoys-playing-fifa-20-20200223

EA sometimes gives away important info/hints as to how they design the game. After fifa 17 one producer said about 17 that "it was a hard game for many people and they will make it more accessible". Yes, understanding football can be hard, so 18 and beyond gave up on trying to be football games.

Even in the pitch notes after this years beta (titled: "FIFA 21 Closed Beta Follow Up") you can find this sentence: "we also use information that we get about how you play the game to understand how we can better balance gameplay while still maintaining our vision for the game".

The only thing that matters is what the people who buy fifa points like and their "vision" is shaped by all the data they collect on everyone playing. Nothing else matters, feedback is something to be managed with PR if it goes against their "vision", the pro scene and everything else is just there as a lure to make people spend. The guys who don't want defending are the only customers they care about. (Although it's obviously not a bad thing for some to openly say "fix defending" or that the game sucks).
 
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We need someone to put together a literally 20-minute-video showing tons and tons of examples of your out-of-possession midfield doing literally nothing while the opponent runs past them and pumps every player forward in their attack.

If you show these guys (not just EA, but the online players) one example, they just say it's a one-off and you're shit at defending. If you show them 20 minutes of it happening over and over, they might begin to consider it an issue.

Looking at tweets like this, there are more than just a few who think defending has turned to shit:



Here's looking at you, @Matt10 - our long-time FIFA saviour and content creator...

I've got many clips, and am working on a video. OS Sliders guys have been hard at work as well. One of them in particular, @JrnLGrn , found some interesting data regarding attributes:

The big 3 attributes to get midfielders to play defense appear to be Reaction, Aggressiveness and Vision. If one of those is too low it throws off everything and they will almost always stand around. The higher those are the more likely they will track runners and defend. Having high interceptions and position attributes also contribute but don't need to be as high. Those attributes are not 100% going to guarantee they do their job but they are more likely to be engaged. It's not a fix but something to be on the look out for.
 
In the meantime, we've posted the Version 1, Beta 2 sliders if anyone is interested. Just note, we're all playing the same game, we know it's FIFA, and know the experience everyone is having. We're trying to make the best out of it. Here they are:

Please retweet/like my post to EA. We've got to push for this fix:


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Changelog & Updates:

Timestamp
: 10/11/2020 | 7:29 AM CST --- We've been working on getting the Version 1 slider set in a good place, and after a couple changes, we feel it's in the best spot possible. Let me stress again that by no means are the central midfield issues fixed. There are a lot of other values that come into play from an attribute standpoint. Jrn went into great detail of testing over the last couple of days:

jrnlgrn
The big 3 attributes to get midfielders to play defense appear to be Reaction, Aggressiveness and Vision. If one of those is too low it throws off everything and they will almost always stand around. The higher those are the more likely they will track runners and defend. Having high interceptions and position attributes also contribute but don't need to be as high. Those attributes are not 100% going to guarantee they do their job but they are more likely to be engaged. It's not a fix but something to be on the look out for.

While sliders cannot fix these issues, what we can do is try our best to distract the players from being the source of frustration for users. To do this, the sliders have been modified just slightly from V1B1, but modified in the right spots. We took our time to go in 5pt increments of testing, but also explored extreme values as well. The good thing is the best base was already there, and just a couple significant tweaks made the difference.

First off, there are 3 difficulties, starting with Legendary, World Class and Ultimate. These are ordered in the amount of time they've been tested. A lot of the values are the same because the base set is good where it's at, there just needs to be some modifiers for the difficulties.

While I will go into the goal of the Version 1, Beta 2 (V1B2) set a bit further in the spoilers, I wanted to place a huge importance to one of the true "gamechangers" of how our matches have gone - which is Run Frequency at 30/30. This value alone has changed the way the CPU plays, the way the players interact throughout the pitch. We have seen so much variety in the runs off the ball, that it truly brings in a different feel than before.

Example here on how the CPU builds from the back now, versus just driving the ball upfield or lobbing it over player's heads. Followed by great movement off the ball.



These subtle movements off the ball create a different approach to the matches. It calms things down in the right moments, but still keeps you on your defensive toes in others. It works the same way for the CPU as well. Yes, there will be times the midfield stands around - we may have to get over that - but what has played out has been the best FIFA 21 has played. We've tested through the difficulties (ultimate is hard) and various formations + tactics + instructions. Passes the test.

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Here is Version 1, Beta 2. As always, please give feedback regarding this set exactly.

bwZZFt.png


FIFA 21 Operation Sports Sliders |||Version 1, Beta 2||

Explanation of each value listed in Spoilers:
♦♦♦ Goal: The focus here is still to get midfielders to latch onto their man, but its' not going to be perfect. The introduction of lowering run frequency to 30, for this set, has been remarkable, and the other values compliment the change.♦♦♦​
Values after the | symbol indicate World Class | Ultimate ; if the value is the same for all difficulties, it will be listed once.
Sprint - 20/20​
► Lower Sprint in FIFA always brings momentum and some form of foot planting. Since we're playing on Normal speed, it means even more of an emphasis needs to be made in getting that feel right.​
Acceleration - 48/48 | 48/49​
► This is a welcome surprise because so many of us love a lower acceleration. However, in year's past it hasn't been an option because of how it reduces fatigue rather than drain it. This year though, it seems like fatigue still happens at this 48 value. This probably has a lot to do with the run frequency as well as the marking positions. Lastly, the importance with the acceleration is also to ensure that it is not so low that both user and CPU can out-race each other with ease. The modifier for World Class is to ensure the CPU can keep an advantage over the user in certain areas.​
Shot Error - 70/70 | 68/68 | 70/72​
► A good balance of poor shots and quality strikes. The threshold here is for when bad shots result in a variety, including high over the bar shots that don't happen very often on default or under 65. Have to ensure that the lowest league player can also still strike a ball with decent quality.​
Pass Error - 55/55​
► The key with pass error is that we have to find the value that makes it where the CPU isn't going to constantly try the same types of passes to break the defensive line. The most common method on default is to try to thread a through ball in, and let the forward be 1v1 with the keeper. With this value just slightly raised, we get that variety we are looking for, and paired with the lower pass speed, it gives defenders more of a chance to intercept/deflect.​
Shot Speed - 49/49​
► A favorite choice here to lower shot speed, but with the acceleration value at 48, the keeper will also be just slightly delayed, giving that late reaction for some brilliant saves or clutching at thin air look. Makes for some fantastic interactions with the ball.​
Pass Speed - 40/40​
► Lowered pass speed from 45 to allow just a bit more time for players to regroup defensively. Driven passes look like 50 pass speeds, which is ideal - giving a chance to be intercepted. Long balls float just a bit more so the velocity is toned down a bit.​
Injury Freq - 90/90​
► Still brings enough variety as before.​
Injury Sev - 40/40​
► Again, enough variety and nothing so consistent between multiple users at this point.​
GK Ability - 48/48​
► With the lowering of shot speed, and acceleration, the GK will be just slightly delayed. It's important that we do not go so low that they become completely delayed with reactions.​
Marking - 65/68​
► This is one of the key values in the set. It compliments the discrepancy of the line length to determine when the defending midfielder needs to latch onto the oncoming runner.​
Run Frequency - 30/30​
► The anchor of V1B2. This controls the fluidity, the build up, the random occurrences in the center of the pitch. The runs off the ball are so key each year in FIFA, but from what we have had to live with the CM track back issues - this run frequency change has been a light. Do not go lower or higher as it will completely skew the set and you will be left with over adjusting other values as a result.​
● The Height, Length, Width (often referred as "HLW") are quite important to consider for each slider set. This year for FIFA 21 they are essential to be close to default, with the exception of line length, which is explained below. [/color]​
Height - 50/50​
► We're going to leave it alone for now. By default it feels somewhat low, but every team tactic/instruction makes a difference in some spots. We tested this value a lot, and found that as it is increased, it doesn't just move the midfielders up higher, it brings in the forwards closer - making it a constant defensive line through ball training session.​
Length - 40/45​
► The core value of the entire set really. It ensures that the user's midfielders are low enough that they can prepare for the oncoming runners, then latch onto them via the marking. For the CPU, it's the same, but because they cannot come off the rails like the user can, we need to give them just a bit more space and marking to prepare. *Note, as the user you still need to manually control your midfielders and practice good technique. This is not a 100% automated process. The FUT/PRO crowd made sure their misguided "AI defending" theories were the norm.*
Width - 50/50​
► We're going to leave it alone for now. By default it feels somewhat low, but every team tactic/instruction makes a difference in some spots.​
FB Pos - 50/50​
► Again, no need to modify this as it can definitely hurt, or help.​
FT Control - 90/90​
► A significant change here because it gives just a bit more time and randomness to the matches. Exceptional players will be just that at both controlling the ball in the air and ground, but also how they dribble 1v1 - making it much less frustrating having to deal with high agile dribblers.​
 
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jrnlgrn
The big 3 attributes to get midfielders to play defense appear to be Reaction, Aggressiveness and Vision. If one of those is too low it throws off everything and they will almost always stand around. The higher those are the more likely they will track runners and defend. Having high interceptions and position attributes also contribute but don't need to be as high. Those attributes are not 100% going to guarantee they do their job but they are more likely to be engaged. It's not a fix but something to be on the look out for.

They even mentioned that multiple attributes make a difference. But suppose you take a team from England's third division, you will suffer even more with this defense without a defensive conscience.
 
They even mentioned that multiple attributes make a difference. But suppose you take a team from England's third division, you will suffer even more with this defense without a defensive conscience.
Do they seriously think defenders in lower leagues don't know how to defend? They play like they've been pulled out of the crowd.

The biggest issue by far is the midfield ignoring all opposition runs, for me, literally just standing still - player instructions are entirely broken too (so you have no way of making them more responsive).

Defensive player instructions just don't do anything. That can be demonstrated, and why they're not interested in fixing EVEN THAT I don't know. They're clearly broken.

 
@Matt10 Thanks for your tireless work as usual, I've always been a pretty big fan of your sliders over the years, and they immeasurably improve the game. After my initial impressions, this is the first time I've played again, and used your V2 slider set for a few games on legendary, mixed semi/manual controls and tactical defending.

While I noticed the sliders improved some behaviours, notably the defensive line would be more pushed up, and the game was a tad slower, the biggest downside (as has been consistently highlighted) is the complete lack of team defending.

Against the AI it is very easy to hold onto the ball and create runs for your midfielders into the box where they will generally never be tracked by the opposing midfielders leading to easy goals.

When defending as a player, you just have to constantly babysit your midfielders, and even then attackers will run past them without any assistance.

I've noticed some of the more ridiculous 'ball control' moments have been toned down (I actually didn't see any by the AI defenders).

But I gave up after the following game. Just too easy to create 1v1 or 2v1 situations versus the AI defense.

Unfortunately I think this is a year where the sliders simply can't fix some AI behaviours, and attempting to overcorrect and fix a particular problem just leads to something else being broken.

Screenshot 2020-10-11 224228.jpg

PS the goal the opposition scored was Sterling winning a header surrounded by 3 arsenal defenders, one of which was Luiz. Wait, maybe that makes sense :P
 
I genuinely hope EA have worked hard on next gen, no way current gen is 12 months work
Aaron McHardy has said next-gen contains "new features" in an article I read yesterday, but the rest of the article made it sound like they were all graphical. Which I wouldn't call a "feature". So it's not entirely clear.

In other news:



Interesting stuff in here.

At 12 mins in, we have an admission from the devs (via a Gamechanger) that the player boosts in Career Mode are to make the gameplay more closely replicate Ultimate Team.

At that point I had to turn it off in disgust.

(Nothing else about gameplay in the above video by the way, don't waste your time if that's what you're after.)
 
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Aaron McHardy has said next-gen contains "new features" in an article I read yesterday, but the rest of the article made it sound like they were all graphical. Which I wouldn't call a "feature". So it's not entirely clear.

In other news:



Interesting stuff in here.

At 12 mins in, we have an admission from the devs (via a Gamechanger) that the player boosts in Career Mode are to make the gameplay more closely replicate Ultimate Team.

At that point I had to turn it off in disgust.

wish I’d never bought it now, should have bought NHL instead

im hoping but not expecting the same upgrade they did for fifa 14 on Xbox one, that was excellent to be fair
 
At 12 mins in, we have an admission from the devs (via a Gamechanger) that the player boosts in Career Mode are to make the gameplay more closely replicate Ultimate Team.

At that point I had to turn it off in disgust.

So offline gameplay comes in two flavours, competitor mode and fut light, just the op boosts and no defending. Useful admission, no need to guess why the game is the way it is and expect any better. Either "fixes" (nothing is broken, it's fut!) or a sim mode. Makes it super easy to forget the game for good and just play old games.
 
So offline gameplay comes in two flavours, competitor mode and fut light, just the op boosts and no defending. Useful admission, no need to guess why the game is the way it is and expect any better. Either "fixes" (nothing is broken, it's fut!) or a sim mode. Makes it super easy to forget the game for good and just play old games.
Yeah, the game is like this for a reason. It's not an accident or a bug.

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Another interesting thing from that video - because FIFA is missing various teams that appear in the Champions League and Europa League, they literally replace those slots with random teams from across the European top flight leagues.

But it means you have the standard, real-life EPL teams in the Champions League - and also (for example) West Brom and Brighton.

I would have thought they'd have picked random teams from the "Other Europe" league, or even (horrible solution) increased the qualification slots per country so that you at LEAST get the best teams.

It's so ramshackle I can barely believe it - and I can barely believe they're allowed to do it given the license.

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Most annoyingly for me...

The guy (rightly) complained to the devs that player boosts are FAR too high (his Wilfred Zaha reaches 89 OVR half way through a season, which is mental).

EA's response was "the AI get boosts too, which are all uniform, all AI players are always at almost-max-boosts".

Which A) is lazy as hell, and B) will just destroy gameplay even further - making ALL players speed-monsters.

And yet... The guy is DELIGHTED with this response and considers the matter closed.

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If I could ask EA one question, it would be this. And I wish I could.

Do they think Career Mode players wish they could play FUT - or, are they forcing FUT gameplay on Career Mode players to make FUT feel more accessible and make themselves some more microtransaction money? (Call me naïve but I honestly think it might be option 1 - but maybe just because I can't bear to accept that it's option 2.)
 
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Aaron McHardy has said next-gen contains "new features" in an article I read yesterday, but the rest of the article made it sound like they were all graphical. Which I wouldn't call a "feature". So it's not entirely clear.

In other news:



Interesting stuff in here.

At 12 mins in, we have an admission from the devs (via a Gamechanger) that the player boosts in Career Mode are to make the gameplay more closely replicate Ultimate Team.

At that point I had to turn it off in disgust.

(Nothing else about gameplay in the above video by the way, don't waste your time if that's what you're after.)

So the further amalgamation of Career Mode and FUT is not cause for concern or something that needs to be addressed, but an intended feature. He's a Career Mode oriented YouTuber and doesn't openly take issue with that design choice? Obsequious comes to mind. I get it, he doesn't want to be stripped of his illustrious "Gamechanger" title because he failed to toe the company line. Turning your back on an already niche audience that you claim to represent is low, but money talks and bullshit walks. The intentional sabotage of offline gameplay in order to funnel people towards FUT has finally reached its apex.
 
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@Matt10 Thanks for your tireless work as usual, I've always been a pretty big fan of your sliders over the years, and they immeasurably improve the game. After my initial impressions, this is the first time I've played again, and used your V2 slider set for a few games on legendary, mixed semi/manual controls and tactical defending.

While I noticed the sliders improved some behaviours, notably the defensive line would be more pushed up, and the game was a tad slower, the biggest downside (as has been consistently highlighted) is the complete lack of team defending.

Against the AI it is very easy to hold onto the ball and create runs for your midfielders into the box where they will generally never be tracked by the opposing midfielders leading to easy goals.

When defending as a player, you just have to constantly babysit your midfielders, and even then attackers will run past them without any assistance.

I've noticed some of the more ridiculous 'ball control' moments have been toned down (I actually didn't see any by the AI defenders).

But I gave up after the following game. Just too easy to create 1v1 or 2v1 situations versus the AI defense.

Unfortunately I think this is a year where the sliders simply can't fix some AI behaviours, and attempting to overcorrect and fix a particular problem just leads to something else being broken.

View attachment 62398

PS the goal the opposition scored was Sterling winning a header surrounded by 3 arsenal defenders, one of which was Luiz. Wait, maybe that makes sense :P

I think we have to meter expectations in some areas. Because the CPU doesn't really track either, it's a bit difficult to find any realism in manually making runs from the center as well. When I test, I don't use any type of manual runs - mainly because I want to see how the RF value plays out.

FWIW, there's about 6 of us and noone has beat the CPU by massive margins. I personally haven't won a match until this morning, so about 15 matches on a mixture of World Class and Legendary (I don't count ultimate as that is quite hard).
 
Of course it's all intentional to deviate more people possible to their online drug. I'm expecting competitive bullshit mode to be the AI norm in a couple of years (maybe less) and for career to blend into FUT in some way. At the current state of things, with the present already grim enough I have no hope left for the future of this game.
 
So the further amalgamation of Career Mode and FUT is not cause for concern or something that needs to be addressed, but an intended feature. He's a Career Mode oriented YouTuber and doesn't openly take issue with that design choice?
Funny you say that.

He said something about disliking FUT earlier, so I responded...



"Nah."

The problem with FUT is the "misplaced passes"...
 
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