FIFA 21 Discussion (Console Versions)

Chris Davies said:
:THINK:If you're going to pick an argument to try and ward off criticism of the game, I wouldn't go with that one, considering it's widely considered that the AI provides a very limited challenge at any difficulty - this post below (from just three days ago) is one of many along the same lines:
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I already said 2 months ago that the game is neither supposed to be that easy nor that it is that easy for me. I don't know how people are breaking the game. Just look at the OS community sliders thread and you will see that almost nobody complains about legendary being too easy there - and those people are actually playing the game regularly.

papinho81 said:
Come on! Midfielders standing like pylons when the ball is in their 18 yards is not a problem?
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Yes, player positioning is a problem. No, player positioning is not related to 1v1s. Player positioning could be fixed without moving away from 1v1s.
 
majuh said:
I already said 2 months ago that the game is neither supposed to be that easy nor that it is that easy for me. I don't know how people are breaking the game. Just look at the OS community sliders thread and you will see that almost nobody complains about legendary being too easy there - and those people are actually playing the game regularly.


Yes, player positioning is a problem. No, player positioning is not related to 1v1s. Player positioning could be fixed without moving away from 1v1s.
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Can you explain how you think player positioning can be fixed without moving away from 1v1?

In my opinion (and after spending a lot of time with the gameplay files in FIFA 20) it became pretty clear to me that 1v1 is the primary reason for issues with positioning and tracking.
 
majuh said:
Player positioning could be fixed without moving away from 1v1s.
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1v1s is just what they came up with to satisfy all the idiots who shouted "no AI defending". The only innovation here is making sure that 20 players are passive zombies. So yes, 1v1s has to die in an offline mode. 20 players blowing their nose (what a great next gen thing!) in the correct position won't magically make it football again.

As it stands, the whole game is a childish and simplistic 1v1 volta mode. There's one guy with the ball and another one supposed to defend. Pass the ball, now you have a different 1v1, lol. God help you (and the cpu) if player switching is not both instantaneous and correct. Weeeee, what fun! Riveting stuff.

They can and should improve the positioning, but proper AI defending is also a must for an offline game and so is second man press / 2v1s.
 
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majuh said:
I already said 2 months ago that the game is neither supposed to be that easy nor that it is that easy for me. I don't know how people are breaking the game. Just look at the OS community sliders thread and you will see that almost nobody complains about legendary being too easy there - and those people are actually playing the game regularly.


Yes, player positioning is a problem. No, player positioning is not related to 1v1s. Player positioning could be fixed without moving away from 1v1s.
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They are intrinsically linked. The 1v1's in FIFA are a result of the defensive positioning/movement/attributes of teammates being nerfed to such a level that they don't do anything at all. That's what generates the 1v1's. It's not some organic thing that happens because of the users skill the game just isolates a single defender.

1v1's in real football are rare and a team will spend a passage of play before hand to create and isolate a player (usually a full back) FIFA has 1v1's in centre midfield and strikers v centre defenders.
 
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manmachine said:
1v1s is just what they came up with to satisfy all the idiots who shouted "no AI defending". The only innovation here is making sure that 20 players are passive zombies. So yes, 1v1s has to die in an offline mode. 20 players blowing their nose (what a great next gen thing!) in the correct position won't magically make it football again.

As it stands, the whole game is a childish and simplistic 1v1 volta mode. There's one guy with the ball and another one supposed to defend. Pass the ball, now you have a different 1v1, lol. God help you (and the cpu) if player switching is not both instantaneous and correct. Weeeee, what fun! Riveting stuff.

They can and should improve the positioning, but proper AI defending is also a must for an offline game and so is second man press / 2v1s.
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fernadez said:
They are intrinsically linked. The iv1's in FIFA are a result of the defensive positioning/movement/attributes of teammates being nerfed to such a level that they don't do anything at all. That's what generates the 1v1's. It's not some organic thing that happens because of the users skill the game just isolates a single defender.

1v1's in real football are rare and a team will spend a passage of play before hand to create and isolate a player (usually a full back) FIFA has 1v1's in centre midfield and strikers v centre defenders.
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this really is something... as i had to find out the last couple of days.
never had a thought about the AI in FIFA being so dull. its shocking really (atm).
(from the other game) i am used to "steer" my team mates with second man control and team control while i control my player. i am missing this so much!!
combine that (nearly non existing feature) with the brain dead team mates.... this really stands out to me in a negative way... and its really dragging down the flow and shape of the whole team and match, imo.

i feel like i have to control every single bit of action on the pitch... litte self-awareness from my mates or active football behaviour accompany that. hm...
at least one of those features working (be it the auto-positioning and active actions from mates or second man press (by myself)) and the whole game would benefit, i guess!

still, i cant wait to test the ng patch. there is always a glimpse of hope in my body...
 
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Not sure if I'm being a bit think here reading the dual entitlement rules. I never bought fifa 21 for ps4 I bought it for ps5 in the sale , will this still get the free next gen uograde ?
 
hitmanuk said:
Not sure if I'm being a bit think here reading the dual entitlement rules. I never bought fifa 21 for ps4 I bought it for ps5 in the sale , will this still get the free next gen uograde ?
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As there is only FIFA21 for PS4 you will be good! there is no PS5 version per se, just the NG update for everyone owning a copy of FIFA21.
 
majuh said:
I already said 2 months ago that the game is neither supposed to be that easy nor that it is that easy for me. I don't know how people are breaking the game. Just look at the OS community sliders thread and you will see that almost nobody complains about legendary being too easy there - and those people are actually playing the game regularly.


Yes, player positioning is a problem. No, player positioning is not related to 1v1s. Player positioning could be fixed without moving away from 1v1s.
Click to expand...

The game is widely perceived by the community to offer no real challenge regardless of the difficulty setting. People who modify the gameplay (e.g. Paul) are often inundated with requests to make the game harder.

If you think this issue can be fixed then please go ahead and do so. I and many others would be very grateful.

In case you didn't know, there is a 23-page thread which is almost entirely dedicated to solving this issue (here), though I'm assuming you must've read all of it given your confidence on this matter!
 
I've had a few games tonight and it's growing on me, I don't find it easy at all but then Im not a fifa player.

Defending is a bit ropey but I tend to hd circle down a bit so the AI presses the man with the ball and I then cover the runner or space .

Fouls could be a lot more but this looks really good on my ps5 now so Friday should be decent .

I used to think my 4k TV was crap for the ps4 pro but maybe it was the pro setup ..weird but it's noticeably better picture on the 5
 
hitmanuk said:
I've had a few games tonight and it's growing on me, I don't find it easy at all but then Im not a fifa player.

Defending is a bit ropey but I tend to hd circle down a bit so the AI presses the man with the ball and I then cover the runner or space .

Fouls could be a lot more but this looks really good on my ps5 now so Friday should be decent .

I used to think my 4k TV was crap for the ps4 pro but maybe it was the pro setup ..weird but it's noticeably better picture on the 5
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What exactly did you do man?!
i want my mates to be more sharp in defending opponents and covering space.
 
PRO_TOO said:
So, the first next gen update gameplay will be revealed today?! I got that correct?!
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PRO_TOO said:
What exactly did you do man?!
i want my mates to be more sharp in defending opponents and covering space.
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I'm totally new to this but how I do it and understand it is I turn off second man selector for starts as that's way to confusing and makes selecting a player harder for me .

So if AI is attacking I'll select a man but most of the time I'll move him away from the attacking player and cover space or the person I think he may pass to whilst holding ⭕ . The ⭕ button makes the nearest AI player press and challenge the AI player with the ball .

It seems to work most of the time just need to be careful of leaving some gaping holes

Whilst the AI player presses you can also switch back and nick the ball.

If I do find myself where it's a 1 on 1 I just jockey and hardly ever engage and block the pass.

It's very different to Pes and the AI is too static, this is not a fix just the way I approach defending
 
hitmanuk said:
I'm totally new to this but how I do it and understand it is I turn off second man selector for starts as that's way to confusing and makes selecting a player harder for me .

So if AI is attacking I'll select a man but most of the time I'll move him away from the attacking player and cover space or the person I think he may pass to whilst holding ⭕ . The ⭕ button makes the nearest AI player press and challenge the AI player with the ball .

It seems to work most of the time just need to be careful of leaving some gaping holes

Whilst the AI player presses you can also switch back and nick the ball.

If I do find myself where it's a 1 on 1 I just jockey and hardly ever engage and block the pass.

It's very different to Pes and the AI is too static, this is not a fix just the way I approach defending
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Thanks hitmanuk!

the second man press is totally different here as is getting control over the team mates. they are to passive for my liking be it controlled by me or the AI.
i try to jockey and cover space from distance like you do. The patient approach.

what’s the most annoying for me atm is the manual controls. They are not resistant! It’s driving me crazy. :LOL: might be down to using the OS slider set with FT error pretty high or something else... but they are not resistant!
what’s making it even harder for me is the broadcast cam and the angles coming with it. I’m used to it basically, but combine those angles with the non resistant fuma controls... sometimes it’s a mess!

well... still trying to get the best out of it.
 
Woah, woah, woah, I don't see Haaland's hair moving like in the trailer! Where's my hair tech! :P
 
Chris Davies said:
You know what's bonkers? And I think I felt the same way when FIFA 21 current gen media was released...


The gameplay here looks pretty good.

And yet.


The gameplay here looks awful. (IMO.)
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It looks like the same shit to me but with better graphics.
Defenders are tracking the attaker deap in their box a la PES instead of playing remotely the offside line. The midfielders are still standing. Pass with a 120° angle are still full power perfect. Sliding show all over the place.

The french guy is playing on pro difficulty though.

Edit: Actually around 1:08:50 he says that the gameplay is the same than the current gen.
 
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Anth James said:
Can you explain how you think player positioning can be fixed without moving away from 1v1?

In my opinion (and after spending a lot of time with the gameplay files in FIFA 20) it became pretty clear to me that 1v1 is the primary reason for issues with positioning and tracking.
Click to expand...
They should make the gap between the back four and the midfielders much smaller when out of possession so it's harder for the attacking team to break into that space. Also, defenders should be better at tracking striker runs. That would be enough already. The AI is not supposed to actually win the ball for you. Just switch to the correct defender and tackle the opponent yourself when the opportunity arises.

fernadez said:
1v1's in real football are rare and a team will spend a passage of play before hand to create and isolate a player (usually a full back) FIFA has 1v1's in centre midfield and strikers v centre defenders.
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One could say that the whole sport consists of 1v1 situations all over the pitch.
https://coachluzz.com/the-importance-of-training-the-1v1-moment/

sonaldo said:
The game is widely perceived by the community to offer no real challenge regardless of the difficulty setting. People who modify the gameplay (e.g. Paul) are often inundated with requests to make the game harder.

If you think this issue can be fixed then please go ahead and do so. I and many others would be very grateful.

In case you didn't know, there is a 23-page thread which is almost entirely dedicated to solving this issue (here), though I'm assuming you must've read all of it given your confidence on this matter!
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We are talking about FIFA 21 here, not FIFA 20.
 
majuh said:
They should make the gap between the back four and the midfielders much smaller when out of possession so it's harder for the attacking team to break into that space. Also, defenders should be better at tracking striker runs. That would be enough already. The AI is not supposed to actually win the ball for you. Just switch to the correct defender and tackle the opponent yourself when the opportunity arises.


One could say that the whole sport consists of 1v1 situations all over the pitch.
https://coachluzz.com/the-importance-of-training-the-1v1-moment/


We are talking about FIFA 21 here, not FIFA 20.
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I can't stand the argument 'the AI is not supposed to win the ball for you'. It's not about winning games, it's about realism - we want it to be more difficult to play against, not easier. It's about the CPU just as much as our own team - even more so for me personally.

The points you've made are not wrong in theory, but I'm trying to say that 1v1 is at the core of the issue (not 100% of every single problem is 1v1, but the majority of these positional/tracking issues stem from that). For example, look at this video.


The reason the defenders aren't doing anything about the run is primarily because the defender giving chase is the '1'. The rest of the defence just stands and watches despite the fact he isn't even goal side. This is '1v1' according to the logic of the game.

It's not necessarily that the footballing term '1v1' is wrong - it's the way the game interprets and uses it as a base for positioning and marking that is the problem. The game is designed so that for the most part there is only really 1 defensive player engaged in active positional awareness at one time. That isn't football.

Again, look at this example. The REASON the marking/positioning isn't right is because of the 1v1.


Look at 21 compared to FIFA 16 in the clip. See how the midfielders on 16 make an effort to move across and mark dangerous space despite the fact there are other defenders present. I know you'll point to the gap between the midfielders and defenders for 21 here - but it's happening BECAUSE of 1v1. They're 'switched off' and not making any effort to mark because the CBs are recognised as the markers for those attackers - again creating a 1v1 problem.
 
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