The Retro-PES Corner

[Special4988]

@geeeeee Should be a hard fight for that promotion spot. Seems like most of Div 2 is quite competitive.

I use fixed player as I find it fun only be a small part of the team. My individual performance can only impact the team so much. It also helps that the AI is quite good, and they make me feel part of the team. Semi-fixed is also quite fun. You can change your player at any time, and you also don't have to worry about team defending because the AI will press on their own.

Got you option file. Thanks! Works great

 

[mattmid]

@Special4988 I'm toying with that fixed player idea when I get to start my 2013 ML. Actually I haven't checked yes that it's still an option in 2013, surely it must be, but this is Konami! If not I could do it in BAL mode I suppose but I'd rather manage the team as well.

 

[miguelfcp]

I'm still on PES2 - can't abandon this game really, as much as I wanted to get back on my PES5 Defaults ML, this is too addictive. After getting eliminated on the quarter-finals of the pseudo-Champions League with Navarra's Galaticos, I picked up Aragon (Manchester United) and on multiple tries the best I could do was reaching the semifinals once, losing to...Provence (Monaco). This is supposedly one of the best teams in the game (if not even the best): Roy Keane, Scholes, Beckham, Giggs, Veron and Van Nistelroo...ahem, Oranges038; plus an aging but still great Laurent Blanc and Barthez make up the wondeful "spine" of this team. Yet this game is unforgiving and winning matches doesn't come easy most of the time.

Now I'm going with Piemonte (Juventus). Defensively, it's perhaps the best team in PES2: my back-four is comprised of Montero, Tudor, Thuram and Ferrara - the first of them has 96 Defense and the latter is the weakest on this regard, but still has an impressive...85 DEF attribute! The midfield is legendary (Conte/Tacchinardi, Edgar Davids, Nedved and Zambrotta) and the frontmen duo need no introduction: Del Piero and Trezeguet. Oh and the keeper is Buffon...I advanced past the pseudo-CL group stage easily, and am more comfortable playing with Piemonte than Aragon or Navarra. It's not a surprise that team tactics are very important on most retro-PES games but I'm feeling that in PES2 that importance is even greater: if the formation/tactics do not fit your players, you'll have a hard time. Piemonte's seem to work flawlessly; they're rock solid at the back naturally, then Tacchinardi is the anchorman supporting Zambrotta, Davids and Nedved, three skilled workhorses (the latter is just fantastic as expected), and Del Piero running the show supporting Trezeguet.

Aragon and Navarra have loads of talent (perhaps even more than Piemonte) but you can spot a few of their fatal inconsistencies ingame. Navarra lacks a decent CB partner for Hierro and practically defends on a 6-4 formation, as ZIdane/Figo/Raul/Morientes can't be bothered to help at the back with some dirty work. Aragon should work perfectly up front but Scholes/Keane like to attack often, so the team's often left with few players at the back and is vulnerable to counter-attacks - plus, Blanc is solid but is no longer able to keep up with younger, faster players, and Gary Neville plays as CB while being only decent at it.

-----

One interesting thing I noticed after rewatching many older football matches (late 90s/early 00s) lately is that football the sport itself has really changed a lot. Nowadays the obsession for control over the match has made the sport a kind of animated chess game, whereas in the past the action looked more free and chaotic. Interestingly I found myself understanding how these PS1/PS2 retro-PES games actually reflect perfectly how the sport was played back then. This is yet another valuable aspect of retro-PES; every time one plays one of these titles he's experiencing football in a completely different way than that which is offered by both the modern PES/FIFAs and contemporary real-life football.

Ironically, the characteristics of the football of 20/30 years ago are a much better fit for 10/15/20 min. virtual matches than the football of today...

 

[Special4988]

@mattmid Yes I remember PES 2013 still has the option for fixed player, and of course BAL mode. I have been mainly playing fixed player since PES 5, so I think I have played that way on every PES game that I have played. Even the newer PES games allow it, but it's a bit more limited (surprised?). On the older PES games you can fix your player to anyone player, even subs (not sure about keepers, never bothered). The newer PES games force you to control a player that is starting the match.

It seems you would enjoy the experience because you seem to enjoy AI vs AI matches, which I do as well. The PES AI definitely has its quirks, but is still an immensely enjoyable experience. I sometimes mix it up to play semi-fixed, and sometimes I like to control the whole team. But the beauty of it again, retro PES games let us play how we want.

 

[Special4988]

Ironically, the characteristics of the football of 20/30 years ago are a much better fit for 10/15/20 min. virtual matches than the football of today...

That absolutely sums it up @miguelfcp . With the lack of newer football matches, I have been watching classic fixtures 10-15 years ago. I haven't really gone older than that yet, but the jump to HD in 2006-ish made a big difference for viewing pleasure. Even the matches in the late 2000's in the EPL are completely different than today's. Games were more back and forth with lots of action, which older PES games seem to realistically depict.

That Juventus team seems like a blast to play with. Davids is always my go to midfielder in PES 5. His stamina is unreal, and has a very solid skill set to work with. Enjoying hearing about your experiences in PES 2.

 

[mattmid]

One interesting thing I noticed after rewatching many older football matches (late 90s/early 00s) lately is that football the sport itself has really changed a lot. Nowadays the obsession for control over the match has made the sport a kind of animated chess game, whereas in the past the action looked more free and chaotic. Interestingly I found myself understanding how these PS1/PS2 retro-PES games actually reflect perfectly how the sport was played back then. This is yet another valuable aspect of retro-PES; every time one plays one of these titles he's experiencing football in a completely different way than that which is offered by both the modern PES/FIFAs and contemporary real-life football.

The fear of losing has taken over football I think. Particularly in the Premier League, teams are scared to get relegated because of the financial hit, the fan pressure via social media means the minute a manager hits a bad run he is immediately in danger of being sacked and thus he then plays defensively, scared to lose. Teams go out not to lose, rather than to win. The Premier league might have many of the best players in it but it is certainly not the most entertaining league any more.

During this lockdown I have really missed going to football to watch my team but I can honestly say I really haven't missed watching the Premier games on tv much at all. One of the channels has been showing highlights that used to be on tv on a Sunday afternoon here. This was way back before Sky invented football. Most of them have been from the 70's and it is so much more enjoyable to watch. End to end, no cynicism, no appealing over every throw-in, no rolling around on the ground like a prima dona at the slightest touch. Pitches like a mudbath but still good quality football played. You might not know of a couple of these players (one you certainly will) but they were all real flair players but in one game the other day that they showed, Fulham v QPR, there was Stan Bowles, Rodney Marsh and George Best all on the same pitch. In another a very young Hoddle in his first season at about 17.

There was one game where this youngish player looked really good and he was interviewed after the game and they were saying he was likely to be called up to the next England squad. I thought to myself why don't I know his name at all? So I looked him up afterwards. What a poignant moment that was! It turned out that he played a midweek game following this very match and damaged his knee badly and never played again! No wonder I'd never heard of him, he looked a real talent too.

Back to the point though, there's no doubt football has got more and more negative in general. The obsession with possession doesn't help. I find Man City largely boring to watch. Sure some of their play around the box is great but generally in the Premier league, their opponents will set up camp in their own half whilst Man City pass them to death. Not exactly entertainment, more an Att v Def training session. Fortunately some teams have finally decided to get at their weakish defence so hopefully more will adopt that approach.

My team's manager is the same, always on about conceding only 0's and 1's. All very good but I'd rather watch us win 3-2 than 1-0 thanks all the same! Most of the time his entire first half game plan is about not conceding it seems, certainly away and often at home too. Not helped by a lot of long ball football as well. Can't really argue with his results in the main but he sure knows how to suck the enjoyment out of football.

@mattmid Yes I remember PES 2013 still has the option for fixed player, and of course BAL mode. I have been mainly playing fixed player since PES 5, so I think I have played that way on every PES game. Even the newer PES games allow it, but it's a bit more limited (surprised?). On the older PES games you can fix your player to anyone player, even subs (not sure about keepers, never bothered). The newer PES games force you to control a player that is starting the match.

It seems you would enjoy the experience because you seem to enjoy AI vs AI matches, which I do as well. The PES AI definitely has its quirks, but is still an immensely enjoyable experience. I sometimes mix it up to play semi-fixed, and sometimes I like to control the whole team. But the beauty of it again, retro PES games let us play how we want.

Yes and with my 2013 play so far I might be better off on the bench too I've played exhibition games and I have a feeling I did once start a test league while I was editing but only played a couple of matches. This was on PES6. I think I'm going to give it a go.

 

[Flipper the Priest]

I think 2004 was a watershed year for football. Substance over style took Porto and Greece and it heralded an era in which individual identity has been sacrificed for that of the team. If Mourinho and Rehhagel can do that with them, imagine what meticulous gameplanning could achieve for teams with greater resources? Barcelona/Spain and Germany, especially, set the standard for the 'right' way to create footballers and play the game. We were seduced by their success, into thinking it's something that can be imitated. It's not. The individual is still as important.

I think it's a trend that's been mimicked in gaming. A lack of player individuality is widely lamented among the football gaming community, as something cherished when football was - virtually, physically and allegedly - more rudimentary.

 

[slamsoze]

I think 2004 was a watershed year for football. Substance over style took Porto and Greece and it heralded an era in which individual identity has been sacrificed for that of the team. If Mourinho and Rehhagel can do that with them, imagine what meticulous gameplanning could achieve for teams with greater resources? Barcelona/Spain and Germany, especially, set the standard for the 'right' way to create footballers and play the game. We were seduced by their success, into thinking it's something that can be imitated. It's not. The individual is still as important.

I think it's a trend that's been mimicked in gaming. A lack of player individuality is widely lamented among the football gaming community, as something cherished when football was - virtually, physically and allegedly - more rudimentary.

Nice throwback. As “the Greek” here, allow me just to add the Greece 2004 Euro was something like a miracle , a combination of 200% hardwork + momentum + luck + Otto Rehhagel. Even if we ever repeat this ( which everyone finds impossible), I don’t think we will see it like 2004, winning the HOME team twice , premiere and final, plus the former Euro Champion (France), plus the best inform team of the tournament (Czech Republic). This streak of events is impossible to happen.

On the other hand the Porto CL win is something that looked more “natural” back in 2004. Now it seems also impossible, given how the finance on football has gone on Europe and how big the gap is between big and small clubs.

The mourinho approach dominated football for sure about up to 4~5 seasons, that 4-3-3 on paper,that on game was transforming to a 4-5-1 with the 4 of 5 MFs forming a second line of defense in front of the DF line, practically defending with 2 zones.
I think this all out defense at general died the night Inter won CL under Moutinho ,on 2010. And then rised the tiki.-taka era.

To conclude, I remember NT teams on WC 2006 trying to imitate 2004Greece ,with no success and terrible results. Even Greece in Euro 2008 , with better individuals than 2004, failed with 3 straight defeats, trying to mimic the 2004 team. Except for this, you cannot surprise them for second time in a row. Or even in the great boys level, it doesn’t not work always. Remember Pep’s Bayern trying to play tiki-taka with terrible success. Or the Chile and Costa Rica oN WC2014 who made the 3-5-2, 5-3-2, 5-4-1 formations a trend again, after 10 years of 4-2-3-1 everywhere. Some Italian clubs adapted again to this 3/5 DF successfully. Some Premier League teams tried to mimic but failed, some Bundesliga teams failed too.
Finally who was not bored to death in the Spain NT dominant years 2008~2012, which was a perfect tiki-taka with more solid defense and less risky more conservative mentality? I mean sometimes I prefer even watersheds than everyone playing alternations of 4–5-1, 4-2-3-1 for almost 10 years, with the same playstyles.

 

[mattmid]

Football in general just seems so 'caution first' these days. Defending corners is another thing that our manager drives us mad on. Every single man back even when we are level or losing. Win the header and clear it. Oh there's nobody there, back it comes then. I assume the mentality apart from obviously not to concede is to pack the box so there is no space.

I'd love to see a manager leave 3 up on the half way line when the game is level. Would the other team risk not leaving enough men back? I don't think so. They leave 4 back, include the keeper and the corner taker and they only have 5 in the box, probably 4 in and 1 outside (that's almost PES levels ) Meanwhile the defending team still have 7 outfielders to defend against 5. Surely that's worth doing?

 

[Flipper the Priest]

We (Aberdeen) do that. Even guys who don't have a hope in hell of winning a header. Someone even asked the manager at a fans Q&A why he does it as it pisses everyone off so much. He says corners are a defensive situation, not an attacking one. Thanks for that(!) As you say, it becomes a double defensive situation as the ball comes back when cleared as there's no-one there to hold it up or run with it. Bizarre.

There's too much smugness and pontification about tactics that doesn't sit well with me. But it's all cyclical. In a few years time someone will 'pioneer' a 'new' 4-4-2 with a sexy term for big man, little man ('granpico'?) and 'extroverted wingers'.

 

[sniglet]

Heads up for any PCSX2 users - 1.6.0 stable has been released. I’ve had a go with PES2008 and input lag seems massively reduced!

 

[mattmid]

We (Aberdeen) do that. Even guys who don't have a hope in hell of winning a header. Someone even asked the manager at a fans Q&A why he does it as it pisses everyone off so much. He says corners are a defensive situation, not an attacking one. Thanks for that(!) As you say, it becomes a double defensive situation as the ball comes back when cleared as there's no-one there to hold it up or run with it. Bizarre.

There's too much smugness and pontification about tactics that doesn't sit well with me. But it's all cyclical. In a few years time someone will 'pioneer' a 'new' 4-4-2 with a sexy term for big man, little man ('granpico'?) and 'extroverted wingers'.

Totally agree. Something 'new' comes out and everyone copies it. The current favourite is playing out from inside your own box. There's even teams in League one doing it! Really can't see the risk/reward on that. No need to play it that deep. If teams are worried about getting caught out by them playing through the press, then just sit on the half line and let them get on with it.

 

[smkusj12]

Thanks to this thread, I decided to go retro as well and went for a trip down memory lane on my PS2. Started off with PES 6 and it felt rather like a game of ping-pong, too arcadey for my liking. With hindsight, no wonder I never grew fond of PES 6 like I did with WE9I in my teens. Used to play the ML of WE9I to death. Still, each to its own, PES 6 is still a great game in its own right.

Switched to WE9I and oh boy, the gameplay is easily more nuanced and solid. Players are more sturdy compared to PES 6, where weight and body contact played a crucial role in the game's engine. The body strength and height of players like John Carew and Luca Toni can be utilised as a deadly weapon in the air, brute force of Gattuso in the middle of the park, tenacity of Nesta/Ferdinand in defence, the list goes on.. Point being, players were depicted accurately and each player actually felt 'alive', something that is sorely lacking in modern football games where almost every player feels the same.

I felt PES 2019 was one of the decent ones in the current gen but it still couldn't top the classics from the PSX and PS2 era. Games back then had personality and a soul. The passion which helped kindle and reinforce our unwavering love for the game of football (intro of PES 3 comes to mind - a game that I will soon explore after WE9I).

Sad state of affair that most game developers have decided to go on the DLC route, re-using the same game mechanics and re-packaging them as a new game year in year out. Games may look prettier nowadays, but they lack substance, akin to a Hollywood blockbuster. Like what mattmid had mentioned above about the nature of football changing, I can certainly resonate with him, modern football is no longer enjoyable to watch anymore and I have found myself re-watching many of the older matches from the early 2000s. In some ways, modern football have turned into a modern day PES/FIFA, soulless and devoid of any emotions. Fans are simply consumers who churn out more FIFA points/ myClub GP to catch their favourite superstars in action. One thing I will be doing for sure is watching more local Sunday league football once football restarts again, as well as getting thumped in my own Sunday league.

Anyway, I will jump back to my time capsule and bask myself in the heyday of football gaming history. Glad to have found this thread, cheers guys.

 

[Meazza84]

This game wasn't bad:

 

[mattmid]

Good news for me on my 2013 project, I can now make all the kits for kitserver for teams replacing licensed teams. Thanks to the excellent PES 2017 online kit maker, a conversion pack via a set of photoshop actions to convert the kits into PES 2013 format and a little help and guidance from @sniglet .

There's limitations, both in what can be added in the kit maker( and my ability ) but I'm happy to get them close enough to how they are.

A few I've got done so far...

Spoiler: Kits

As far as the player editing goes, Denmark (50 teams) is complete, Sweden (32 teams) is complete and so is Iceland (12 teams). Next up is Norway (32), then Finland (24). That will complete the ML European League teams. Then I'm going to add the 24 teams that appear in the Champions League/Europa during the ML - probably 24 top teams to make a real challenge for anyone qualifying for that. Then after that I'll fill all the other players with mostly young players not used from the Scandinavian teams, u19's and so on. Basically all those who weren't listed in their current squad.

I don't want to have a load of good players in the free agents because the best teams in the ML Leagues will be the likes of Copenhagen/Midtjylland/Malmo/Hammarby/Rosenborg etc so I don't want some Danish D2 team signing up someone like Andre Gomes of Everton for example. I'd rather everyone have to pick from a limited talent pool as these clubs have to. In a brief test ML I did with just a few clubs complete at the time, the AI teams were naturally trying to improve their weak teams but were signing players with 80 overall when the rest of their squad is 40/50's. So I want to try to avoid that if at all possible.

Does anyone know ( @Madmac79 ? ) whether those 24 clubs who compete in Europe sign players and indeed get their players signed by other clubs. I assume they must evolve and age too. Although never assume anything with Konami! Also can you edit the ML youth team that you get? As I think some of those will already be better than first team players if you decide to pick one of the worst teams.

 

[miguelfcp]

On one hand I appreciate football's ever-growing tactical complexity, but it has rendered the sport less attractive indeed. I'd sum it up like this: modern football is tactically rich, but boring in all other areas.

@Special4988: I bet you'll be even more impressed with the pre-2005/06 matches. Sure the "graphics" () are poor but it's worth watching a completely different version of football. I don't know if, as we suspect, it all changed around Porto's/Greece shocking wins in 2004, but something surely happened around that time which totally changed the game. Here in Portugal it was definitely Mourinho's Porto that did the trick: the Portuguese League's matches pre-2002 look like they're 30, 40 years older than encounters played just two years later.

Football in general just seems so 'caution first' these days. Defending corners is another thing that our manager drives us mad on. Every single man back even when we are level or losing. Win the header and clear it. Oh there's nobody there, back it comes then. I assume the mentality apart from obviously not to concede is to pack the box so there is no space.

I'd love to see a manager leave 3 up on the half way line when the game is level. Would the other team risk not leaving enough men back? I don't think so. They leave 4 back, include the keeper and the corner taker and they only have 5 in the box, probably 4 in and 1 outside (that's almost PES levels ) Meanwhile the defending team still have 7 outfielders to defend against 5. Surely that's worth doing?

Interestingly, Mourinho used to do that when he managed Porto. Currently, one manager in our Portuguese League does exactly that - even though he manages a mid-to-low-level side. He achieved like 5 or 6 consecutive promotions from the 2nd Division to the 1st with all kinds of different sides (has 11 in total!) so he must know what he's doing...

@smkusj12: Welcome to the Corner, what a great first post here. If you enjoy WE9, you'll certainly love PES3: player individuality there is also very obvious and the overall gameplay is just too damn addictive. If you've been reading the thread long enough you'll already know about the pristine gem that is PES08 for the PS2, it's another one worth trying out.

 

[miguelfcp]

Last night I had one of the most memorable retro-PES matches ever.
I advanced past the group stage of that pseudo-CL I spoke of previously controlling Piemonte on PES2. Was able to beat Ruhr (Leverkusen, a tough nut to crack in this game...) on the round of 16 and met Highlands (Newcastle) on the quarter-finals. I thought this would be a breeze, providing we could neutralize Shearer - the rest of their squad looked much inferior to our potent one.

Well, it seems I was destined to play such a match after our discussion about the differences between modern and older football here on the thread. It was one of those, shall I say, "retro-football" matches with high intensity, lots of long balls, loads of physical challenges, plenty of shots on goal and dangerous plays on both sides, drama from the start until the end.

Yet, thanks to a wonderful Shay Given, who literally saved everything there was to save, the game ended 0-0: to extra-time we go. And here, because of the now-extinct golden goal rule, the first team who scores a goal immediately wins the match. At some point during the ET, a Buffon comes out of his goal to intercept one of Highlands' strikers' shot, but that leaves the ball dangerously close to the goal and Shearer runs like a maniac to get to it first and inevitably score the goal that would eliminate us. Montero, our wonderful CB, runs like an even crazier maniac to meet Shearer - at this point, it looked impossible for him to do so before him; or if he somehow did, he'd commit a penalty or worse, an own goal.
Somehow, he gets there, slides and steals the goal chance away from Shearer, the ball goes out and it's a corner! I wish I had recorded this.

Still 0-0. I had saved my three subs for the last minutes of ET. 120 minutes in and Del Piero gets a long free kick. One of the quirky things about PES2 is that no matter how many fouls/goals there were during a match, the ref doesn't care about additional time: he ends the match right there if he wants to; so I knew that after this free kick the match would end. I don't change the team's formation at all but I sub in three strikers for three of our defenders, the ones that had the less shot accuracy, in order to upgrade my chances at winning the PK shootout.
Del Piero takes the free kick and the ball is cleared away, but the clearance is so good that it leaves two strikers completely alone against just one Piemonte defender...which was one of the strikers I had brought on. Help. Shearer gets the ball down the left and if he crosses it, the other striker is totally alone against Buffon. Somehow our "defender" clears it for a corner.
The corner kick is taken and because we now have three defensively useless strikers as CBs, an only Thuram knows how to defend on this current starting-11, Shearer avoids an helpless defense and headers it for the killer goal. 0-1 and we're out.

After all this, you might think I'd smash the controller or something like that. But as the match ends, I can't help but smile. I wasn't even mad, I was just glad I got to experience that match.

 

[Madmac79]

@mattmid sorry Matt, no idea! I evoke our all-knowing @slamsoze which I'm sure will be able to answer

@miguelfcp must have truly been an epic game! I can picture it frame by frame from words only. And, man if I understand you! In the end, the "whole" experience is the most important part. Sometimes you win last second an harsh match and you jump pad in hand, sometimes you lose last second the same hard fought battle (like you above), maybe witnessing some very good, plausible and unexpected CPU behaviour.. and guess what? It's fulfilling all the same!

The motto of one of my favourite games around (Dwarf Fortress) is "losing is fun".. and I guess in more than a way it could fit quite nicely to Retro-Pes as well !

 

[geeeeee]

Totally agree. Something 'new' comes out and everyone copies it. The current favourite is playing out from inside your own box. There's even teams in League one doing it! Really can't see the risk/reward on that. No need to play it that deep. If teams are worried about getting caught out by them playing through the press, then just sit on the half line and let them get on with it.

This is one of the things that really annoyed me under Poch. Don't get me wrong i loved him as our manager but that passing around in the penalty area I hate it and no matter how many times we lost the ball we still tried to play it out from the back. I actually found it refreshing when Mourinho took over and we started playing long balls but now we have become boring.

Football is not as good as it used to be. I don't consider myself as proper footy fan now as I don't go to matches anymore so when my brother-in- law got me free tickets for the Tottenham v Southampton FA Cup game this year I jumped at the chance because I had never been to the new stadium. I went with my wife. I found the whole experience disappointing if i am honest, apart from the fact that Spurs were so so poor in the first half. There were people taking selfies and on the phone during the match. It got to half time and we were 1-0 down. My wife made the perfect comment and said "if you was at home you would have turned the tv off by now", so I said "yep you are right, let's go" so we left. The stewards were pretty shocked but I said that I had seen enough.

When I first started supporting Spurs it was all about entertainment but now it is so so boring and for some reason they cannot control a two yard pass anymore.

I miss the days when I used to watch Southend, when Collymore was playing for them. Being so close to the players you really lived the matches with them. Now you are so far away you may as well watch it on TV.

@miguelfcp great match it sounds there. That is what I love about retro PES so many great games and stories unfolding on the pitch.

I played Matches 11 and 12 last night in my ML.

It will be tough as we are sitting 4th, 4 points behind Cardiff in 2nd place with only 4 games left. But on a losing run.

First match was away to Norwich in the snow!

Spoiler: The Score

Norwich 1 Canvey 2, what a win in a pretty drab game. I changed my formation at the start to 4-4-2 because we were conceding too many goals. But in the first half we could hardly create anything. When we went 1-0 down I feared the worse. But Gutierrez popped up with a fantastic dinked header. What i loved about it is that I (or he) meant it. Moubarki saw the run and he put a light cross in and Guti caught Krul out at the near post. Then in injury Huylens scored the winner after poor play by Norwich. Huylens scored the late winner against them in the last game. Poor game but great stuff all the same. We are 3rd now and 1pt behind Cardiff who lost.

This next match was a classic, it had everything. Hence the length of the highlights. At home against our kind of bogey team Huddersfield who had knocked us out the cup but we had beat them previously in the league through 2 set pieces. They had just beaten the leaders Brighton in the Cup so this was going to be tough.

Spoiler: The Score

Canvey 4 Huddersfield 2, as I said this was a classic but obviously it made it more enjoyable because we won. At 2-0 down I though we were out but I believe this game was the making of Gutierrez. His first goal was so good in many different ways. Whereas Castolo had a similar chance earlier, Guti showed how it is done. The goal itself reminded me of the masked Kane's goal against Arsenal (in real life) but for me in my fantasy league this was more important. It brought us back from the brink and from that moment he took the game by the scruff of the neck. The only error that Guti made was allowing Huylens to take the penalty. Guti scored our last one (against Huddersfield) but he remembered that Huylens has the skill of taking penalties so he allowed him to, but he missed. But with Huddersfield down to 10 man they were still holding on at 2-1. In the end it was inevitable that we were going to score because they seemed to tire, maybe that win against Brighton in the Cup took it out of them. Dodo's goal at the end was the icing on the cake. Great stuff!

Here is the table...

Spoiler: Matchday 12 Table

Next we have Fulham away and then Sheff Utd at home

Spoiler: Top Goal Scorers

Spoiler: Champions League Semi Final Draw

Spoiler: Europa League Quarter Final Draw

 

[slamsoze]

@mattmid if I got it correct, you ask about the “other European teams” that do not belong to a league, or the clubs that exist inside the CL and EL mode, which seems like a standalone mode?(but it is not database-wise)

 

[slamsoze]

Good news for me on my 2013 project, I can now make all the kits for kitserver for teams replacing licensed teams. Thanks to the excellent PES 2017 online kit maker, a conversion pack via a set of photoshop actions to convert the kits into PES 2013 format and a little help and guidance from @sniglet .

There's limitations, both in what can be added in the kit maker( and my ability ) but I'm happy to get them close enough to how they are.

A few I've got done so far...

Spoiler: Kits

View attachment 41726

View attachment 41727

View attachment 41729

View attachment 41730

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View attachment 41734

...........

Does anyone know ( @Madmac79 ? ) whether those 24 clubs who compete in Europe sign players and indeed get their players signed by other clubs. I assume they must evolve and age too. Although never assume anything with Konami! Also can you edit the ML youth team that you get? As I think some of those will already be better than first team players if you decide to pick one of the worst teams.

matt my reply is yes t0 all

1st vide0


2nd vid

 

[slamsoze]

To explain what we see above. 1st video: These are the teams that theoretically complete the CL and EL competitions and do not have a league. They are on "other Europe" section. Teams that compete in CL and EL but have a league, are actually drained from the League pool when you start your ML. I.E.: Manchester United appears both on CL and Premier League. Their real position is Premier League, meaning that if you edit them , the changes appear both in Premier League and CL on main game menu. On MASTER LEAGUE the changes appear on premier league and the team is just pooled to complete the Champions League tournament.
This TEAM INFO feature i show on the video, is THE MOST USEFULL thing in MASTER LEAGUE you can use in any modern game from PES 2011 and onwards.(KONAMI toys much with it the latest years, hidding it underground in awkward menus, but at least until today 2020 they have not removed it.) You can check teams, gameplans, team records, do negotiations and transfers, you can do almost everything just by browsing on the fly the existing leagues and every other clubs that appears in Master League.
About the market activity of clubs. If you can see in video, Lech Poznan, Rosenborg and Genk from other Europe clubs, have done some transfers.

In the second video you can watch editing ML youth team players, through the in game edit mode.

Now in your case, if you replaced all "official clubs" , i assume it will happen something of two possibilities, but yopu must start a test ML to check. It will either drain teams from hardcoded positions, meaning if you replaced EPL with Norwegian league, the teams that replaced the English clubs that were programmed to comepete in CL and EL , will take their place. I.E. If Man United was to start in CL and you replaced Manu with Valerega, Valerega will start on CL, 1st season of ML. Second scenarios is the database does a self-reboot on CL pool and it picks the strongest by Overall clubs to compete in CL.

 

[mattmid]

@geeeeee What a couple of great games there! Nice time to find some form too and what a game Fulham will be now. A win could see you up yet a loss could see you needing a win in the final game (is it a straight 2 up/2 down in 2008, I assume so as PES6 was). What a goal from Guti as well, keeper had no chance!

I was hoping we'd draw Spurs in the cup to go to their new stadium, for some reason I'd never been to White Hart Lane even during the time we were in the Premier league, did most of the other London grounds but not them, I'm not even sure why not come to think of it! I tend to only go fairly local to away games these days, I can't be bothered with the six-ten hour round trips any more, especially as we are historically awful away from home. Funny story in relation to that, back in I think it was 98 or 99 me and a friend from work who was a football fan but had no particular affinity to anyone decided that on the days Pompey were away we'd visit some grounds across the country starting with the lower league. One saturday we'd decided on Darlington, just the 310 miles away! We set off around 8am and got their around 1.30pm or so as the traffic wasn't great in a couple of places. We then proceeded to watch one of the most boring 0-0's I've ever seen!! Driving home we ran into some of the worst fog I've ever seen (or not seen?) that brought us down to virtually a crawl. Eventually after about a 7 hour journey we made it back. Virtually 13 hours on the road to watch two teams we couldn't give a toss about play out a boring 0-0. We did question why we had done it! But we did continue for the rest of the season and some of the next.

Regarding your Spurs trip this picture when Spurs at wembley sums up everything you said more than a thousand words could. The modern day Premier fan. No, just, no.

Spoiler

It's a sad state of affairs really that I don't even hope we ever get back to the Premier league. I enjoyed it at the time as it was new, we were getting to see top players and we had a couple of moments I never thought I'd see like winning the FA Cup and getting into the Europa Lge and playing AC Milan at home, them with Kaka, Inzaghi, Seedorf and Ronaldinho and so on. Had to pinch myself that night when we went 2-0 up! Me and my friend still talk about that moment because he turned to me at 2-0 and said, does it get any better than this? Well, the answer was no! It ended 2-2 and from that day on it all went downhill on and off the pitch. We concluded him saying that was pretty much the turning point

After that though each season all your thought was at the start was can we stay up - where's the enjoyment in that season after season? It's been more fun these last 4-5 seasons challenging up the top end of the table and you know what, beating Cheltenham 6-1 on the last day of the season three years ago to win League 2 after the two teams above us failed to win was probably the best moment I've had supporting them. We were never top of the table the entire season. In the end we were top for just 32 minutes of the season, unbelievable.

Compare that to being a Premier team fan and 'celebrating' finishing fourth because you made the champions league! I know which I'd rather have. I don't think I'd be looking back saying do you remember that season we finished fourth!



@slamsoze Thanks for doing hat! That's great to know then.

 

[mattmid]

@slamsoze Thanks for that info, that's really helpful. I noticed in the edit section that you can move around the league structure (although the Dutch and Spanish teams are not included) You can shuffle around Premier/French/Italian/We/Pes and Other Europe. That's fairly helpful as I can try to even the leagues up a bit by mixing them around as none of the leagues have 18 or 20 teams. I'll have to make sure that the Spanish and Dutch are the teams I want to be in league together though it seems as they can't be moved.

Good to know the 24 teams do transfers then, although it will be slim pickings for them

I've got the teams in place of the English league teams so I might start a ML in a minute just to check who goes into the CL. Although I haven't overwritten Man Utd yet as they were the only licensed team. Who else from England goes straight in it that season - Chelsea I'd assume at least?

 

[Meazza84]

Love @geeeeee 's remarks on today's football. I'm of the exact same opinion.

 

[slamsoze]

@slamsoze Although I haven't overwritten Man Utd yet as they were the only licensed team. Who else from England goes straight in it that season - Chelsea I'd assume at least?

Yep i know they are licensed, just a random pick. I am not sure who starts, cause my game is PTE-patched and they have already messed around with many staff. But checked that the UEFA Super Cup is Bayern VS Chelsea, so i assume that Chelsea is the second??? in my current ML, it is still in the begining so i did not check the CL group stage after qualification play-offs. But from my experinence with 2015-2016-2017-2018 which have similar structure, it is every years different mystery. Some years the teams are hardcoded for the first seasons, some years they are semi-hardcoded but also picked by overall team strenght if you mix a lot the structure. It is always type of mystery!

It seems that the dev-team has a very variable mood from year to year!!

P.S.: I had a side effect with two patches, PESEDIT and PTE. When i mess a lot with the structure, it produces some blank teams or some AUSTRIA NT clones in the others Europe, or it can show different set of teams in the editing screen and diferrent in Match selection screen. This was an editing case of all the 2011-2012-2013 saga. It was fixed after 2014 hopefully, if you jump to a most recent game in the future.

Also i had an issue with my kitserver map, cause some commnads for players faces-=hairstyles had special latin characters in the map.txt, (
(like Á, È, É, etc) which was not possible in my windows ENG/GRE version to be mapped correctly. But i assume that since you build your game from scratch, you will not have such problems. In my case i had to re write the commands with plain aenglish alphabet letters (A, E, O).

 

[mattmid]

@slamsoze Just had a quick ML start-up to see who's in Europe. Great news for Dalkurd, they're in the Champions Lge group stage An impressive feat from Swe D2. They're over Arsenal and Akroplolis IF are in the super cup (Chelsea as you mentioned) So hopefully it might be hardcoded for some at least.

In the CL qualifying of those I've changed so far were some odd ones thought, Kalmar (Lorient) and FC Helsingor who are in the PES league. I get the impression it must take some from each League as would normally qualify. Whether as you suggest they may take those from the overall team strength we'll see. It makes sense because Helsingor are the strongest team in the PES league. Plus those Swedish teams who are in the French league that have appeared in Europe are Malmo, Hammarby, Norrkoping so again that makes sense on the overall team strength. AIK in England and the other two are probably hardcoded as Arsenal and Chelsea.

Hopefully I won't see any of those structure errors.

I'm just going to start another ML to check the youth team. I made a note of the 32 players and had a look in the csv export. It looks like a mix of ML Default and some free agent players whose ID is next to those so presumably set aside for the ML youth. Going to see if it's the same 32 or a random mix each time.

PS: And my keeper got injured for 1 week. Never seen a keeper get injured before so that's nice to see!

Went forward a few weeks. I like what I'm seeing in the transfers. As my players are all lower case, the signings stand out in the squad list and it seems they are signing players that are off a comparable standard to their squad so that looks good news if that means the logic is good regarding them signing players they just couldn't realistically attract. There's one been signed who is on the ML default list as well and a couple from Brazil.

The only problem is the other South American teams that have uneditable players although they shouldn't be that highly rated so that shouldn't be a major problem.

 

[Madmac79]

@geeeeee great games! The header in the first one is fantastic, the animation and the momentum combined in beautiful fashion.

 

[slamsoze]

@slamsoze Just had a quick ML start-up to see who's in Europe. Great news for Dalkurd, they're in the Champions Lge group stage An impressive feat from Swe D2. They're over Arsenal and Akroplolis IF are in the super cup (Chelsea as you mentioned) So hopefully it might be hardcoded for some at least.

In the CL qualifying of those I've changed so far were some odd ones thought, Kalmar (Lorient) and FC Helsingor who are in the PES league. I get the impression it must take some from each League as would normally qualify. Whether as you suggest they may take those from the overall team strength we'll see. It makes sense because Helsingor are the strongest team in the PES league. Plus those Swedish teams who are in the French league that have appeared in Europe are Malmo, Hammarby, Norrkoping so again that makes sense on the overall team strength. AIK in England and the other two are probably hardcoded as Arsenal and Chelsea.

Hopefully I won't see any of those structure errors.

I'm just going to start another ML to check the youth team. I made a note of the 32 players and had a look in the csv export. It looks like a mix of ML Default and some free agent players whose ID is next to those so presumably set aside for the ML youth. Going to see if it's the same 32 or a random mix each time.

PS: And my keeper got injured for 1 week. Never seen a keeper get injured before so that's nice to see!

Went forward a few weeks. I like what I'm seeing in the transfers. As my players are all lower case, the signings stand out in the squad list and it seems they are signing players that are off a comparable standard to their squad so that looks good news if that means the logic is good regarding them signing players they just couldn't realistically attract. There's one been signed who is on the ML default list as well and a couple from Brazil.

The only problem is the other South American teams that have uneditable players although they shouldn't be that highly rated so that shouldn't be a major problem.

About the CL teams, for an average-skilled like me it was always a problem trying to solve it with workarounds.

For you I assume it will be much easier, I am not sure, maybe hexediting or a tool that changes the teams that are “flagged” to compete in CL & EL.

Matt, The youth team is a little bit more standardized. The pool is standard and it’s time you start an ML, it starts with the same 32 youth players. That’s why there is a EURO and a Latin America team. The Latam is the standard when you start in Brasileirao and the EURO new faces when you start with whichever European club. After the first season it starts to bring you random new comers, regens of official players or some ML default-like players like Delios or Ioannidia or Zarate (the fake one).
I don’t only remember if some scout level of your team staff has to do. In the previous ML vers, 2010~2012 there was an investment level on you youth academy , so according to the level you had the respective quality of regens each season. But in 2013 guess what??? It was removed!!
So either you start with Real or with Panathinaikos, the first season youth squad is always the same.

 

[mattmid]

@slamsoze I'm going to find out now whether editing them 'sticks'. There are some in pes6 you can edit in the editor but when you start a ML they are back at default values. I assume it must have read them from the same 'internal' OF that it used for online play.

The interesting thing is those extra ML youth players that fill half of the squad are listed in the csv export as having no club and the ML defaults are listed as ML default and account for the other half (16) of the youth squad but their ages are changed to all under 20. I see on the export the Latin players for the Latin ML and there are also Japanese ML players listed presumably for the Japanese version.

The odd thing is those other ML youth players, such as Augustin the keeper, are listed on the csv export but they are not available to be edited in the game (ability wise - other things are) and also if you search in the editor you cannot find them (you can find the defaults and the latin/japanese players). But I'm wondering with a full csv import, seeing as they are on the csv export then if I changed them it might well import the changes. Whether they'll stick I don't know.

Another interesting thing was I edited a few defaults, took them all down to around 40 just to see what would happen. I did about 5 of them, started a new ML with a real team/players and those 5 were no longer in my youth squad, it had selected 5 of the other ML Youth players into the squad. So it must pick the best 32 for your youth squad I think.