The Retro-PES Corner

[Saint Angelo]

That just gave me a thought. Just which defaults team is actually the best? There's only one way to find out. The PES Defaults League. Each team is from a different version of PES/WE with their stats from that game.

whos better

hitler or stalin

tumors or chlamydia

pes 3 default team or pes 6 default team

I see no difference 🐑

I understand masochism is very addictive but if u need help my friend, please, i am here all day, I can listen to u.

Dont hurt yourself too much 🐑 Please be careful!!

 

[Flipper the Priest]

That'll be me then!



That just gave me a thought. Just which defaults team is actually the best? There's only one way to find out. The PES Defaults League. Each team is from a different version of PES/WE with their stats from that game.

To do it fairly it would have to be AI v AI and whoever is at home gets to play in their version of PES. So PES 3 defaults v PES 6 defaults would be played on PES 3 with the return game in PES 6 and so on.

Hmm, I might just do this.

I fully endorse this project.

 

[Madmac79]

That'll be me then!



That just gave me a thought. Just which defaults team is actually the best? There's only one way to find out. The PES Defaults League. Each team is from a different version of PES/WE with their stats from that game.

To do it fairly it would have to be AI v AI and whoever is at home gets to play in their version of PES. So PES 3 defaults v PES 6 defaults would be played on PES 3 with the return game in PES 6 and so on.

Hmm, I might just do this.

Matt, it's actually an idea beyond fantastic. That's like pure retro-awesomeness took directly from the source here. Please yes, make it happen.

My mind already pictured the whole tournament highlights commented by @MafiaMurderBag

 

[Flipper the Priest]

If time's a factor you could make it a PES6-only affair. I've merged all those spreadsheets together into one mega one. A bit more tinkering and it could be imported via the editor.

 

[mattmid]

@Flipper the Priest

That would probably be easiest, especially given the csv import for PES6 editor. If you could upload that list that would be brilliant

 

[Early PES footy fan]

@Early PES footy fan: You and PES5, the love story that never ends. I was also tempted to start with Sampdoria on my own PES5 ML adventure exactly because of their kits and also the badge, both are amongst my favourites. What's the idea for this save, will you be leading the Defaults to glory?

I think so, yes . I might even play long enough to buy a few regens of my current eldest squad members such as Minanda and Espimas, to revel in their young days and see what I can get out of them. Being Sampdoria, I may also snap up a few of their stars of yesteryear along the way if I can (Mancini, Vialli and Mijhalovic spring to mind! Now that I think about it, I don't think Lombardo is in the game, which is a shame because he would be an obvious choice, and a good fit for my style of play).

 

[Saint Angelo]

Another day, another babasport


great goals tonight, form is definitely up and looks like a good finish of season 1 is ahead (next episode).

still experimenting with how i wanna do things I think there's so much more potential there I just lack the skills!!!

be the sheep 🐑 dare to baba

 

[Early PES footy fan]

Great goals and highlights- My favourites being Baggio proving a handful for a bunch of your players in the first game as he turns repeatedly before passing it, Huylens' equaliser in that match, Saha's goal for Fulham, and Ximilez in the last game...he was on fire! I see you went for the spectacular hat-trick in the first half but narrowly missed . His second goal was one of the reasons I love PES so much, that this sort of thing can happen, though frankly I was shocked at the accuracy of his shot on the first goal (having missed in hundreds of such situations with him myself), and is he actually right footed in PES 3?!? Unless I am mistaken he scored both goals with his right foot, but he is a lefty in PES 5 and I've always thought of him as such. Anyway, great highlights (though personally I am not a fan of having music).

I finished off my first PES 5 season with Samp, and took the title by five points in the end though it went down to the last game. At the halfway point, I had edged clear of Anderlecht on goal difference only; they had only lost to me, drawn one and won the other five. In the second half of the season though, they lost FIVE out of their remaining seven matches, finishing fourth behind Benfica (who had a mare of a start to the season but came on strong later). Palermo came up with me in second place, while the other teams who failed to go up to the Italian top division were Lazio, Treviso, NAC Breda and Nancy Lorraine.

My second meeting with Anderlecht proved important- I won it, but only by a remarkable turn of events. You may recall I won the first meeting in an emphatic 5-1 victory. This time, I was under siege from the get-go and, feeling desperate, carelessly slid into the back of a striker as he went charging through my defence with the ball. Off went Ceciu, after just half an hour. I held out until the brink of half time when they scored two in quick succession. The Samp manager was fuming, cursing and biting his hand on the touchline, the other coaching staff studiously avoiding his gaze. Things didn't look like getting better in the second half, with me losing the ball far too often (I had not moved anyone back into defence, just telling Celnili, who I bought mid-season, to come backward when we had possession, so I had just two defenders against their wing based 4-3-3). Thankfully they failed to take advantage, and I somehow got a bit of clumsy attacking done- then I scored in the 69th minute. Ordaz received the ball and, with the keeper advancing rapidly, he poked the ball toward goal. It glanced off the keeper and bobbled in. Still a goal down, I put a ball into the box that was feebly headed out to Dodo, who netted for the third time in the season with his left foot, neatly in the bottom corner. This with about quarter of an hour left! I didn't feel like I really deserved it, but was very pleased. Players tired further, I felt it likely I would concede a third goal, but no. In the last minute, I won a penalty! Unbelievable! Up stepped Ordaz, and he...missed his second penalty of the season, the keeper saving it. Frustrated but still thankful that I would get a draw, I relaxed a bit and was able to focus on playing better. Surely though the whistle was about to go, it was already the 90th minute. Cleared, back forward again, cleared, back forward once more, into the box, the ball hits Dodos chest and...Tirinen, exhausted, mistimes a sliding tackle and brings the Italian down! Another penalty! This time Ordaz scores, and a very unlikely comeback is complete. I felt a bit of a fraud and sorry for Anderlecht, as I had been resigned to defeat and knew they were already on a bad run. Shame for them!

The cup was won by Lazio against Palermo (the latter having knocked me out in the semis, I didn't score against them in any of the four games of the season); small consolation for the biggest name in the division. Huylens was top scorer in the cup with 2 goals, while Ordaz ran away with the top scorer prize in the league with 9, despite not being a first choice striker. Huylens bagged 4 in the league, Hamsun 3 (all as a late sub) and Castolo just 2, though he made an assist or two as well and was useful to attacks. Minanda was top assister with 5.

I had already bought Celnili, Jol Peruma (in a swap with Macco going to Benfica) and a 26 year old sweeper named Di Tommaso halfway through the season. Before starting my second season, I filled out my squad with Ostwaut, Dulic and another winger to keep the slot well covered, a 20 year old German named Rottger. He seems to have good potential. I made a good start to the new campaign, and am currently in fourth having won 3, drawn 2. Di Tommaso is already a well developed player and my only true sweeper, so he took that first team spot as soon as he arrived, with Jaric and Valeny typically starting alongside him; all the rest of my purchases fill in when needed and to give them some experience.

My fellow promotees Palermo have really struggled and are near the bottom, though Parma are last (one point from six games). Juve just went top in the last game after beating Milan 1-0. I am expecting to do well this season though I think Milan and Juve, and probably Roma and Inter, will be too consistently good for me. Inter are my next opponents. They had a bad start but have won their last three games.

 

[miguelfcp]

@Early PES footy fan: Huylens also shined on your previous PES5 ML, didn't he? For me he never evolved beyond being merely a super-sub. Not super, mediocre-sub, actually. Nice idea, getting a few of the previous Defaults. One challenge I've yet to play is starting a ML with the Defaults and then forcing myself to never sell them and only buy the Vornanders and Celnilis and the like: the true ML Defaults experience.

@mattmid: What a phenomenal idea. There is actually quite a bit of variety, between the Alfa Romeo defaults, the Vornander era, the Minanda and Castolo era, then the Steins/Ordaz/Dodos introduced in PES5, the Ettori/Gutierrez/Van Den Berg of PES2008 and then a few more variations after PES2012.

 

[miguelfcp]

Oh and @Saint Angelo, I am really liking your videos. Though I'm with @Early PES footy fan about the music, what would the alternative be...just stadium sounds and commentary? A bit bland. You know, these videos could be a fantastic platform for lesser known artists and bands to showcase their work. That's the concept I'd follow if I were on that particular scene...

 

[Madmac79]

@Early PES footy fan: Huylens also shined on your previous PES5 ML, didn't he? For me he never evolved beyond being merely a super-sub. Not super, mediocre-sub, actually. Nice idea, getting a few of the previous Defaults. One challenge I've yet to play is starting a ML with the Defaults and then forcing myself to never sell them and only buy the Vornanders and Celnilis and the like: the true ML Defaults experience.

I actually did two seasons like this some time ago. Then when I failed promotion in the second year I kinda got discouraged lol. All this talk about the defaults it's kinda igniting me to re-take it.

 

[Flipper the Priest]

@Flipper the Priest

That would probably be easiest, especially given the csv import for PES6 editor. If you could upload that list that would be brilliant

Will do, including the stats for the ISSPE guys I created!

 

[Meazza84]

Miguel's prediction was about 30% correct.

 

[Saint Angelo]

frankly I was shocked at the accuracy of his shot on the first goal (having missed in hundreds of such situations with him myself)

Oh me too, Ximelez of all people...one of the few players on this team I am not disappointed with. I mean I have very low expectations of default players but holy crap are they trash this time around. Ximelez, Burchet and Edingson I actually want to keep for longer, the rest gets kicked out asap.

To be honest Boca's goalie (Abondanzierri?) had one hell of a game too - and not of a good kind.

Anyway, great highlights (though personally I am not a fan of having music).

Though I'm with @Early PES footy fan about the music, what would the alternative be...just stadium sounds and commentary?

Aah see this is a complex issue.

Stadium sounds are eh, and I tried inserting sounds and chants from actual football games but it doesn't feel very natural. Might switch back to in-game.
Commentary is trash, utter trash, and it's trash in modern PES too. I tried making it work but it just sucks.
For music, I got a subscription on Melodie to get copyright-free tunes, 10€ a month. And they are...average. There's other similar services, I'll keep looking for better one.

In general, source material is lacking to say the least when it comes to audio in PES. Gotta experiment. Other issue is, well, I'm a beginner myself and still trying to learn how to edit videos well. Personally, happy with things I can do so far!

Bottom line I just want to avoid what 95% of Master Leagues on youtube are - some uninspired knobs muttering over gameplay thinking they're comedy gold, 40 minute videos with no substance god do i hate that. And I used to do that myself, back in 2015 when I was making pes 6 videos in Polish. Those were awful!!!

tl;dr user experience will improve, especially once I'll actually buy some good players. Then there'll be some great goals. Without great goals, there is just hoping Ximelez will pull something out of his hat.

🐑

 

[slamsoze]

Oh me too, Ximelez of all people...one of the few players on this team I am not disappointed with. I mean I have very low expectations of default players but holy crap are they trash this time around. Ximelez, Burchet and Edingson I actually want to keep for longer, the rest gets kicked out asap.

To be honest Boca's goalie (Abondanzierri?) had one hell of a game too - and not of a good kind.





Aah see this is a complex issue.

Stadium sounds are eh, and I tried inserting sounds and chants from actual football games but it doesn't feel very natural. Might switch back to in-game.
Commentary is trash, utter trash, and it's trash in modern PES too. I tried making it work but it just sucks.
For music, I got a subscription on Melodie to get copyright-free tunes, 10€ a month. And they are...average. There's other similar services, I'll keep looking for better one.

In general, source material is lacking to say the least when it comes to audio in PES. Gotta experiment. Other issue is, well, I'm a beginner myself and still trying to learn how to edit videos well. Personally, happy with things I can do so far!

Bottom line I just want to avoid what 95% of Master Leagues on youtube are - some uninspired knobs muttering over gameplay thinking they're comedy gold, 40 minute videos with no substance god do i hate that. And I used to do that myself, back in 2015 when I was making pes 6 videos in Polish. Those were awful!!!

tl;dr user experience will improve, especially once I'll actually buy some good players. Then there'll be some great goals. Without great goals, there is just hoping Ximelez will pull something out of his hat.

🐑

I was thinking of either implementing real life stadium sounds, or do the commentary of replays and highlights by myself. But my voice sucks hard, my English suck hard. I also though of implementing voice from the Windows XP programm, that converts text to voice. But i do not even have the programe and the time to do such a job.

 

[Meazza84]

I also thought about that problem and as I absolutely hate the commentary in PES I just turned it off for better or worse.

 

[mattmid]

I was thinking of either implementing real life stadium sounds, or do the commentary of replays and highlights by myself. But my voice sucks hard, my English suck hard. I also though of implementing voice from the Windows XP programm, that converts text to voice. But i do not even have the programe and the time to do such a job.

This one's not too bad and you can just paste in what you want said and record it with audacity or similar. That's audacity the software, although the other would work too

https://www.naturalreaders.com/online/

Will do, including the stats for the ISSPE guys I created!

Great stuff, I'll include them too then.

 

[Flipper the Priest]

Audio is a tricky one when it comes to PES of all ages. The crowd noise has always been so banal - inexplicably so - and the commentary atrocious. I've strong views on commentary in football games, and that I doubt it'll be listenable in my lifetime. Football is too chaotic, too fast-paced on the field and off, for commentary to work; save for a commentator being in a studio all year round. Weekly downloadable commentary packs - coming soon to a FIFA near you, at a price.

But I rarely see or hear it addressed in patches. Now, I'm loath to criticise patch makers as the work they do is incredible and I don't have it in me to do it myself. But I don't really 'do' patches as a console man and purist so I'll take the plunge and pontificate! Why chanting that sounds like four pissed lads singing in a shed? And Clive Tyldesley and Andy Townsend FIFA commentary laid over the top. A sideways step to me. Reading that back I sound like a right dick but purely my own take on the admittedly limited number of patches I have downloaded in the past.

Music on Master League playthroughs(?) works for me as long as it's not too garish. Classic "bEsT oF MeSsI | 2o20/21 | Hd 1080p" drum and bass guff. In the bin. For me, your music stays onside @Saint Angelo! People doing their own commentary is good. If they're good. Or trying to be funny. If they're funny. If not they can be really cringey.

TL;DR: IDK

Great stuff, I'll include them too then.

Nice one. Will upload tonight or tomorrow!

 

[mattmid]

But I don't really 'do' patches as a console man and purist so I'll take the plunge and pontificate! Why chanting that sounds like four pissed lads singing in a shed?

I think that's the problem, most of them are probably fan recorded from you tube or other sites and the problem is if it's from within and particularly if the person recording is singing then you hear individual voices. Best place to record it would probably be from on the concourse under the stand. Or standing on the centre circle, but the ref might have something to say about that.

What it needs is for sky/bt to have an option to have just crowd noise and no commentator. Seem to remember Sky once did back in the early Premier days and I think Amazon prime do, or at least they did last season, haven't seen any games on there this season to know if they still do. Then it could be recorded pretty well I would think. Also an added bonus is I wouldn't have to listen to Jamie Carragher telling me what just happened when oddly enough I saw it with my own eyes thanks. Why do we even need a commentator for football anyway? I think we can all work out what's going on.

 

[Saint Angelo]

I was thinking of either implementing real life stadium sounds, or do the commentary of replays and highlights by myself. But my voice sucks hard, my English suck hard. I also though of implementing voice from the Windows XP programm, that converts text to voice. But i do not even have the programe and the time to do such a job.

For me the biggest revelation while watching my fav yt channel (ymfah, challenge runs of dark souls etc) is how you can make amazing videos and not say a word. Let the editing speak for you. I always had this stupid idea that you have to talk no matter what - wish I knew five years ago.

I've strong views on commentary in football games, and that I doubt it'll be listenable in my lifetime.

If it was limited to goals, perhaps they could invest more and make it better. Even then, yeah, nearly nothing changed since early 00s, they just add more lines.
My idea was to record commentary for goals myself but a.) must be Spanish since Spanish commentary is the best - only been learning for couple weeks though and b.) I live with 5 other people and would rather not scream my ass off given the walls are made out of cardboard.

2022, maybe.

As per "drum and bass" see that's the thing. I love all sorts of electronic music. Hard, heavy dubstep and trap being one of them. And they fit, they really do! probably more for trailers or compilations than regular episodes though.

Lighter electronics are the best choice, similar to what's used in actual PS2 PES. Some house, trance, some chill EDM, I just need to get better tracks thats all. There's a reason why PS2 PES soundtrack is a banger.

People doing their own commentary is good. If they're good. Or trying to be funny. If they're funny. If not they can be really cringey.

A million times this. I'm good at screaming my ass off but that's like 3% of the game. 97% was painful muttering. Wish I realized back then. 🐑

EDIT

Why do we even need a commentator for football anyway? I think we can all work out what's going on.

ban all the commentators except of italian / spanish / latam and we are golden baby

 

[mattmid]

ban all the commentators except of italian / spanish / latam and we are golden baby

Well there was no need to show that one J/K I'm over it. No honestly, I am.

 

[Saint Angelo]

Well there was no need to show that one J/K I'm over it. No honestly, I am.

Ah yes Portuguese commentary pretty good as well

 

[mattmid]

@Saint Angelo

Our commentary peaked some while ago!

 

[miguelfcp]

@Meazza84:

Spoiler: .

I should have known: it's 2004/05/06 Portugal we are talking about...at the time, and you know what they say, it was 11vs11 and in the end, Portugal wins on the PK shootout

My favourite football game commentary is still PS2-era FIFAs' in Portuguese, especially the early ones with the late Jorge Perestrelo; after his death they introduced another commentator. Not only he was fabulous at what it did, which certainly helped, the style of his FIFA commentary is ideal: it is playfully passionate. His charismatic commentary is full of metaphors: for example, sometimes when a player passes it backwards he uses his famous "backwards? Backwards pisses the (female) donkey!" (sounds incredibly funny in English, almost as much as in Portuguese ); or when a player does something ridiculous he shouts something like "what the hell was that, dude?"; not to speak of his "even I with my big gut would have scored it". This style works fantastically on a football game, because since you can't get real commentary and have to rely on pre-recorded audio, considering of course that it will become repetitive over time, these funny catchphrases work best. His passionate but funny and unpretentious commentary is a reflection of what football gaming is: loads of fun, but still just a game.

Even after his death, his particular style set an example the others followed. Late PS2 FIFAs, now with Perestrelo's replacement (and his former colleague as main commentator) doubled-down on this concept - though neither commentator had even one tenth of Perestrelo's charisma, and were incredibly abrasive. One memorable line is the main guy saying "You know, I am a fan of this manager, he is an amazing manager. In a scale of 0 to 20, how would you rate him?" And the other replies "eh, maybe...a 12". After a failed shot: "what an absolute disgrace: he thought he was Maradona but there's only one Maradona." My favourite is after an horrendous shot attempt: both chuckle and the main one says something like: "hey, you. you there, yes you: there is you and there's [Pelé or Maradona, I think...?]: you have literally nothing in common."

Sadly none of this could be replicated in today's world, where everyone is always offended. Perestrelos' donkey line would have to be eliminated since one of the main Portuguese political parties wants to forbid people from utilizing animal-based proverbs because it is offensive...the commentators would have to apologize for hurting the feelings of the poor gamers who were in tears after they ridicularized his shooting attempt...

 

[Meazza84]

You are soooo spot on with the last paragraph, Miguel. Today's pop culture is paradoxically both overwhelmingly and cheaply pornographic and conservatively overly-sensitive.

That Perestrelo guy sounds hilarious! And this one is the most hilarious commentary I ever heard in any WE/PES game or mod :


"He can't score from there, hehehehe (sneering laugh)"

"This keeper is breaking their balls!"

"This game is on fire!"

 

[Meazza84]

5 different PES-es, 5 World Champions

 

[Silverdome94]

@miguelfcp I’m loving your Retro Christmas daily write ups. I had no idea there was a PES management game, and of course today I thank you for giving MLS GameNight - the game that first introduced me to PES/WE - some well-deserved love.

 

[miguelfcp]

@breezy: Many thanks, glad you like it. Talk about a game that went completely under the radar...as for GameNight, I only learned out its existence about a year ago, though ISS Pro Evolution, its platform, is probably my favourite football game of all time. A crime! I played it for the first time recently through the PSP emulator and was quite pleased. I knew ISS PE could be toughly realistic but it was nice to see it showing its more arcade-y face.

@Meazza84: Amazing That "Desde ahí no puede hacer gol, hehe" cracked me up. Before that I heard something like "my friends, he controls the ball as if he was in his house" - but South American Spanish is so much harder to comprehend...fantastic commentary like this gives a new life to any game. Sometimes I play PS2 FIFA just because of it.
---
Heads up: tomorrow the Libero's Retro Christmas will feature @Heisenberg's wonderful Classic Laziale mod for old-gen PES2008. My friend, I would have included your Laziale 2021 as well but I published an article about it right before I had that Retro Christmas idea...one day before, actually! So it is practically part of the festivities

 

[Meazza84]

@Meazza84: Amazing That "Desde ahí no puede hacer gol, hehe" cracked me up. Before that I heard something like "my friends, he controls the ball as if he was in his house" - but South American Spanish is so much harder to comprehend...fantastic commentary like this gives a new life to any game. Sometimes I play PS2 FIFA just because of it.
---

Key words: huevón and hueviar I don't know exactly what the right translation is but it has to be something obscenely funny considering the etymology.

 

[Heisenberg]

Heads up: tomorrow the Libero's Retro Christmas will feature @Heisenberg's wonderful Classic Laziale mod for old-gen PES2008. My friend, I would have included your Laziale 2021 as well but I published an article about it right before I had that Retro Christmas idea...one day before, actually! So it is practically part of the festivities

I will be attentive, in fact I am following your blog regularly. As I already mentioned on my facebook page, they are the best classic PES reviews that I have ever seen.

PS: Soon I will finish a small update of the Classic Laziale 2.0, the most noteworthy will be the inclusion of Classic West Ham and Classic Wolverhampton.

Also, the patch of this OF for PSP and PS2 is still in progress.