eFootball PES 2020 Discussion Thread (PC)

konami is getting disgusting with their pay2win tactics.
everything now is about coins. you can easily get alot of GP, but to what ends? everything costs coins.
 
Kunglao said:
konami is getting disgusting with their pay2win tactics.
everything now is about coins. you can easily get alot of GP, but to what ends? everything costs coins.
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Meh, most online competitive games have some element of this these days. It's just too lucrative NOT to do it. Konami are no different than any other company. Although, the short time I played MyClub (before a decent option file was ready) you could easily put together a top team of players. So I don't see it as pay2win since more money does not equal a better team, just more choice in the players you use. Just like how the better micro-transaction games are ones where the money only gives you more choice or cosmetic extras. Not 'better' versions of the free things.
 
not true.
we have gone from getting the players you absolutely want with in game points to everything costs coins that are obtainable only by using real money to get a random select player from a list of 100 in wich only 20% are black balls.
 
Kunglao said:
not true.
we have gone from getting the players you absolutely want with in game points to everything costs coins that are obtainable only by using real money to get a random select player from a list of 100 in wich only 20% are black balls.
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Day 1, after about 10 MyClub games, every position in my team had at least high 80s, 4 were 90+. I spent no money. Spending loads of money here would give me players only 1 or 2 stats higher than I already had. That's not pay2win.
I understand online has major flaws with how it plays out. Especially how people can be steered down a certain playing style in order to improve the likelihood of success. But the skill of the human controlling a team is still far more important than a bump by a single stat point or 2.

You also seem to be complaining because you want to buy specific players but can't. That's not a pay2win issue, that's a personal preference thing. Which is fine by me to be charged as it doesn't mean people can buy success, but they can choose to buy to look for something they prefer if they want to.
 
wrong again.
buying more coins gives me more chances to get the best overpowered team with POW Ronaldo, Mess or Legends than waiting for 50 coins a week and drawing once or twice.
Don't compare 90+ players with POW Ronaldo. no even near the same league.
Pay money for better chance of overpowered team sounds like pay2win to me.
If you could draw anything using both coins or GP you'd be right, but you can't. You have to pay to get the best.
 
Negatrev said:
Day 1, after about 10 MyClub games, every position in my team had at least high 80s, 4 were 90+. I spent no money. Spending loads of money here would give me players only 1 or 2 stats higher than I already had. That's not pay2win.
I understand online has major flaws with how it plays out. Especially how people can be steered down a certain playing style in order to improve the likelihood of success. But the skill of the human controlling a team is still far more important than a bump by a single stat point or 2.

You also seem to be complaining because you want to buy specific players but can't. That's not a pay2win issue, that's a personal preference thing. Which is fine by me to be charged as it doesn't mean people can buy success, but they can choose to buy to look for something they prefer if they want to.
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Kunglao said:
wrong again.
buying more coins gives me more chances to get the best overpowered team with POW Ronaldo, Mess or Legends than waiting for 50 coins a week and drawing once or twice.
Don't compare 90+ players with POW Ronaldo. no even near the same league.
Pay money for better chance of overpowered team sounds like pay2win to me.
If you could draw anything using both coins or GP you'd be right, but you can't. You have to pay to get the best.
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I've never yet played a game of myClub where my team has been better than the opposition's. I've no idea if this is down to people spending real money - probably not - but this was the most recent game. 99s, 96s, 94s.


It was like this within a couple of weeks. What kind of lifespan does that give to a game? Is it genuinely accepted that levelling up a team of 90s into 99s should be the meat of this mode? Not earning 80s/90s in the first place?

What makes it worse are the people who defend this because it's harder to do it in FIFA. If FIFA didn't exist, would this be fun? Having a team better than Man City's within a couple of weeks? Nothing left to do than play matches and win games (and if that's all you're interested in, rather than building a team, why not play a non-management mode like Online Divisions)?

And none of this even matters because the gameplay online is the same no matter what. First-time pass away from insta-pressure pinball for 90 minutes.

All microtransactions are bad - as is having a team of 99s after a couple of weeks, taking away all effort/reward/replayability - as is the gameplay online... It's *all* bad.
 
Kunglao said:
wrong again.
buying more coins gives me more chances to get the best overpowered team with POW Ronaldo, Mess or Legends than waiting for 50 coins a week and drawing once or twice.
Don't compare 90+ players with POW Ronaldo. no even near the same league.
Pay money for better chance of overpowered team sounds like pay2win to me.
If you could draw anything using both coins or GP you'd be right, but you can't. You have to pay to get the best.
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...you don't HAVE to do anything. Again, having your 'POW Ronaldo' makes little difference if you already have a 90+ player in that position. Paying only increases your odds of getting this player anyway, it does not guarantee success at all and you can get him without spending a penny. You can win every game you play of MyClub without spending a penny <> pay2win.
 
Chris Davies said:
I've never yet played a game of myClub where my team has been better than the opposition's. I've no idea if this is down to people spending real money - probably not - but this was the most recent game. Check out the 99s.


It was like this within a couple of weeks (the 99s). What kind of lifespan does that give to a game? And what makes it worse are the people who defend this because it's harder to do it in FIFA. Take FIFA out of the equation and it's still a shit "made the perfect team before I've even got used to the game" scenario.

And none of this even matters because the gameplay online is the same no matter what. First-time pass away from insta-pressure pinball for 90 minutes.

All microtransactions are bad - as is having a team of 99s after a couple of weeks, taking away all effort/reward/replayability - as is the gameplay online... myClub is bad, mmkay.
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But being able to pay to get the jump start makes little difference on people who just play 24/7 from launch.
Even the earliest competitive games that had long term progression (like early COD:MW games) that didn't have any micro-transactions, if you logged in on day 1, you'd all be the same ranking. Log in the next day and a large portion of the players will be leagues ahead in the rankings just because they played all day. Micro-transactions don't change this. People who decide to spend all day playing will simply be further ahead than you. That is a shitty online model (and why I don't really play it once I have a better mode), but the micro-transactions do not make you better than free-play players, it just takes longer for free-play players to reach the same level. If you can replace money with effort for the same result, then it's not pay2win.
 
you can't get POW ronaldo without spending a penny.
unless your matches are rewarded in coins instead of GP.
and please don't compare POW Ronaldo to the likes of any other POW 90+ rated player. they are not in the same league.
 
Negatrev said:
If you can replace money with effort for the same result, then it's not pay2win.
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Is it not "pay2compete" then? For the average gamer?

I say that because I imagine a casual gamer playing for an hour a night if they're lucky. Which is nowhere near enough to compete with the 99s. Which may have been earned through three hours a night gameplay, or through payment. Therefore, you must "pay2compete".

Because I sure as hell am never paired with someone I can compete with, in terms of team strength. Ever.

Off-topic (but not) - I'd like to know how many people actually qualify for FIFA's weekend leagues, or whatever they're called now. The things where you have to play the equivalent of 25-30 games in five days to qualify. Because I cannot imagine having the inclination - let alone the time - to do that. 5-6 games a night, every single night, and then more at the weekend. You'd have no time for anything else in your life outside of work and going to the toilet. But is it "normal"? What percentage of online players actually do it?

Negatrev said:
You really think this make any big difference in the final match result...?
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A) Certain attributes matter much more than others (some because playing online means no response time to dribble etc. - some because defending is as simple as holding X with any player and usually winning the ball). B) If you really think it makes no difference - is paying for anything not one giant scam?
 
Chris Davies said:
Is it not "pay2compete" then? For the average gamer?

I say that because I imagine a casual gamer playing for an hour a night if they're lucky. Which is nowhere near enough to compete with the 99s. Which may have been earned through three hours a night gameplay, or through payment. Therefore, you must "pay2compete".

Because I sure as hell am never paired with someone I can compete with, in terms of team strength. Ever.

Off-topic (but not) - I'd like to know how many people actually qualify for FIFA's weekend leagues, or whatever they're called now. The things where you have to play the equivalent of 25-30 games in five days to qualify. Because I cannot imagine having the inclination - let alone the time - to do that. 5-6 games a night, every single night, and then more at the weekend. You'd have no time for anything else in your life outside of work and going to the toilet. But is it "normal"? What percentage of online players actually do it?
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Yes, pay2complete is certainly applicable to most micro-transaction games. At least with PES your skill has some factor in it. Most of them (especially mobile apps) are just, spend money to progress faster.

I can't imagine ever wanting to spending any length of time playing what I consider the worst part of PES to earn something others paid money for. I get far more sense of achievement playing my ML where I get nothing past that sense of achievement!

But this business has always been about making the most out of people. Micro-transactions target a pareto principle. It's not necessarily the same split., but the idea that 80% of your activity (in this case payments) comes from 20% of your client base. They just need to makes sure the other 80% aren't pissed off enough that they hang around to add entertainment value for the 20% 'valued customers'.
 
Last year you could get way more using GP, now it's all coins.
online competitions would get you free draws for the weeks offerings. now they offer GP and what good is GP for when everything good costs coins?
the game is incomplete, position trainers and skill trainers are nowhere to be seen. greedy konami forgot to add them, while dreaming about all coins pay2winners buy.
that's a fact.
 
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Chris Davies said:
I've never yet played a game of myClub where my team has been better than the opposition's. I've no idea if this is down to people spending real money - probably not - but this was the most recent game. 99s, 96s, 94s.


It was like this within a couple of weeks. What kind of lifespan does that give to a game? Is it genuinely accepted that levelling up a team of 90s into 99s should be the meat of this mode? Not earning 80s/90s in the first place?

What makes it worse are the people who defend this because it's harder to do it in FIFA. If FIFA didn't exist, would this be fun? Having a team better than Man City's within a couple of weeks? Nothing left to do than play matches and win games (and if that's all you're interested in, rather than building a team, why not play a non-management mode like Online Divisions)?

And none of this even matters because the gameplay online is the same no matter what. First-time pass away from insta-pressure pinball for 90 minutes.

All microtransactions are bad - as is having a team of 99s after a couple of weeks, taking away all effort/reward/replayability - as is the gameplay online... It's *all* bad.
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As a scientist, i have given a name to this . I call it the SANE-MANE syndrome/case.
It is the ability to fit in the same starting 11 ( varying to 2 FW+3 AMF or 3 FW+2AMF) : Sane , Mane, Aubameyang, Messi, Suarez, Griezman, Mbappe, Ronaldo, Dybala , T. Kroos, Lewandowski, Dembele aside with some legends like Cruyyf, Beckham, Ronaldinho.
 
Negatrev said:
Day 1, after about 10 MyClub games, every position in my team had at least high 80s, 4 were 90+. I spent no money. Spending loads of money here would give me players only 1 or 2 stats higher than I already had. That's not pay2win.
I understand online has major flaws with how it plays out. Especially how people can be steered down a certain playing style in order to improve the likelihood of success. But the skill of the human controlling a team is still far more important than a bump by a single stat point or 2.

You also seem to be complaining because you want to buy specific players but can't. That's not a pay2win issue, that's a personal preference thing. Which is fine by me to be charged as it doesn't mean people can buy success, but they can choose to buy to look for something they prefer if they want to.
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It's 100% pay to win. Even though whoever buys coins will have better players and managers who directly influence the gameplay, the game itself manipulates things so that it always helps those who buy coins and screw those who do not. Since PES 2018, I can always say when some of my opponents were buying coins and when not, in eF2020 it's even more obvious.

Konami knows very well what they need to do and what it takes to hold the attention of a person willing to pay and lose money through microtransactions. However, such control and manipulation always affect the gameplay, so more and more the game will feel as scripted and contextual.


Hayes said:
This game will be cult classic in next few years :))
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For all the wrong reasons. I will remember this game hole my life, like one of the worst
 
Kunglao said:
Last year you could get way more using GP, now it's all coins.
online competitions would get you free draws for the weeks offerings. now they offer GP and what good is GP for when everything good costs coins?
the game is incomplete, position trainers and skill trainers are nowhere to be seen. greedy konami forgot to add them, while dreaming about all coins pay2winners buy.
that's a fact.
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Just don't play Myclub. Toxic, shitty game mode.

At best it's a tedious grind for GP, at worst it's pay to win through coins. And it's only going to move further towards the latter (if Konami have any business sense).

The fact people choose to play these modes and then complain about them being P2W is kind of funny. Well, it would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
 
If the gameplay was the same as the demo i would play only the online divisions mode
But the only way to make it fun online its actually play with the potw, upgraded players etc. Because of how impossible its to dribble or get fouls etc
 
At least in my club i can run over ppl with inaki williams and cr7
Since its not possible on any game mode to use gnabry, messi, thiago, tecnique and skills just like the demo
 
Has anyone conducted the usual yearly experiment?
Lowering all the stats of one team to the minimum and raising another team's stats to the max? And see how much of an impact does it really have?
 
I knew this kind of comment would trigger somebody, lol :P

ReiJaoRondo said:
The demo? Already is
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Demo good, final game ? love it.

PESBUL said:
For all the wrong reasons. I will remember this game hole my life, like one of the worst
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Well, atleast for you then. You already said that on both PC or PS4 thread, lol. It's okay not like the game, there's always many alternative football games you like.
 
This year it shows how hard it is for companies to deliver a football game for the masses - even when just looking at offline lots of people say its the best PES in years (i'm in that camp) whilst some say it's the worst pes ever. Not sure what Konami are supposed to do.

"Release version 1"is not the answer as in many people's opinion the AI is far below the AI in 1.02 and 1.03.

FIFA is the same - some now say the latest patch has mostly sorted it whilst others say its still rubbish as they demonstrate a defender running the length of the pitch on legendary.

You just can't satisfy everyone all of the time
 
Hayes said:
I knew this kind of comment would trigger somebody, lol :P



Demo good, final game ? love it.



Well, atleast for you then. You already said that on both PC or PS4 thread, lol. It's okay not like the game, there's always many alternative football games you like.
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So you are on the "i press X and want the ball group" cool, enjoy your game
 
hitmanuk said:
This year it shows how hard it is for companies to deliver a football game for the masses - even when just looking at offline lots of people say its the best PES in years (i'm in that camp) whilst some say it's the worst pes ever. Not sure what Konami are supposed to do.

"Release version 1"is not the answer as in many people's opinion the AI is far below the AI in 1.02 and 1.03.

FIFA is the same - some now say the latest patch has mostly sorted it whilst others say its still rubbish as they demonstrate a defender running the length of the pitch on legendary.

You just can't satisfy everyone all of the time
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Exactly, the problem started when they listened to noobs who couldnt play defense on the demo
And they used that to their favor to increase the script/handicap/whatever in the game
 
Kunglao said:
not true.
we have gone from getting the players you absolutely want with in game points to everything costs coins that are obtainable only by using real money to get a random select player from a list of 100 in wich only 20% are black balls.
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There is still an Agent every Monday to Thursday where you can use gp to get players.Also you can use gp at the auctions if you want to get a specific player.

From the moment that the game has a Team Strength filter,you can't say it's pay2win.If you don't want to spend or always play against superteams,you can just use the filter and play with normal teams against other normal teams.
If some game from the two is pay2win that's Fifa,because it doesn't have the filters so it forces you to spend to compete.

Pay2win is not the problem of this game.The problem is that it literally doesn't have any content online.A mode like FUT puts it to shame in comparison where you have so much to do,different challenges,objectives etc.On the other hand myClub is nearly dead in terms of all that and there is a serious lacking of content and things to do and achieve.The only thing that saves this game is the gameplay,which is also ruined many times because of lag,scripting and cheaters.But especially the lag because in the year 2019 Konami still don't use normal servers but depends on p2p connection which is a fucking joke.
 
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