The Retro-PES Corner

I keep thinking about doing a whole league season playing as each team and a half of each game as each team but the enormity of the amount of fixtures always puts me off in the end. Guess I could do a league with 10/12 teams such as the Scottish Premier or Austrian/Croatian/Swiss Leagues etc. Even thought about doing a past season and using the actual line-ups that played, kind of like a replay season but again there's a danger it could end up becoming a chore rather than fun.
 
I can see all your good points for changing sides but for me I always prefer to play the whole match as the same team. I think it’s because when i first started playing as each team against the CPU, i used to keep a tally of my record against it. I don’t do it now (maybe mentally) but i have stuck with the habit.

Also it may be because i am not as good as you guys and i still have tough games against the CPU. So if the CPU team is winning at half time I have no interest to change to that team, i would prefer to come back from losing position.

If i got better then maybe i would but the most i do is pick the starting line up for it.
 
Heh I remember this thread's beginnings all the way back in 2017-early 2018 when I still had the Orhainmalz account (I think it's banned now because I did attempt to log back into it about a year ago and eh)

So a friend of mine, CRMX (who hails from Hamsun land, who IMO one of the better players on the side), is playing PES 6 ML funny enough, I actually got him back into it by mentioning some of the music from the series - he never thought anyone else would mention it until I did! I might invite him here, I know he's looked around this place before, so yeah I probably should y'know :3

Meanwhile Zamenhof has become yet another of our inside jokes lmao, totally didn't edit the Zamenhof Day page on Wikipedia with a joke edit about our infamous excuse of a third-choice "goalkeeper":
Fictional football squad ML United hold this day as a testament to their worst-performing, infamously bad third-choice stopper Zamenhof. The side was made up mostly of useless prats anyway - save for a few such as Njorgo; Vornander and the rather oddly named 'Oranges102', but one day a man named 'Zamenhof' just popped up in there out of nowhere, on 15th December 2002.

His stats made even Lothar, the replacement for his superior Kelsen, look incompetent at the true ability of 'looking out into the pitch and not paying any attention to the actual game'. It's debatable how he even made it as a player too: some say that he was a friend of Burchet, which given the pronounciation of his name, would make sense from his ability. Others have claimed he got in from a competition titled 'collect ten crisps packets and be a goalkeeper for ML United'. The most likely story however is that he was created from a mutation in one of the factories handling production of the shirts for the next season, just after an accident caused by a psychotic-induced worker, and then just shoved into the ML United team because they were bottom of the league at the time.

And given Zamenhof's insane ability to concede more than two goals in every single match he was placed in, it was no doubt that the managers were simply paying him in drugs and putting him in goal for a laugh. Oh well.
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Been thinking of getting back into it myself but lazy I guess, what's up?
 
Hey, that's not fair- I sometimes got good use out of Zamenhof. When one of the regular defenders was exhausted near the end of the match in the first season, there was often no defender to bring on- so I brought on the tall keeper in place of the centreback. Fresh legs, and all he had to do with the ball was hoof it. To play with, he didn't feel inferior to a normal defender, though that may partly be because I had low expectations of his abilities and so took no risks with him, which meant he rarely lost the ball in defence.

2011

The final season in my Sao Paulo ML is over. Having won the league a number of games before the end, I perhaps wasn't playing with the gusto necessary to break my previous record for number of wins or to win the two crucial cup games. I had the better of most of the D1 Cup final against Barca, but they scored first through an Iniesta header in the second half. I didn't feel like I was going to get a goal, and was almost resigned to defeat. But then I got Castolo beyond the defender, into the side of the box, and laid it across to Grafite who scored his first of the tournament. It went into extra time, and I soon scored the winning silver goal through Falcao. The domestic double was complete. Castolo was named as the top scorer, assister and best player in the D1 Cup at the end of the season. He scored 4, as well as 5 in the EC and 4 in the league, a good season for the 36 year old.

Things didn't go so well in the European Cup. A couple of years ago, Real Madrid had knocked me out of the semis with a devastatingly good Maradona performance. He was playing again today, but didn't have a huge impact in the first half, which I had the better of. I had started Castolo (partly due to other players' fatigue, but mostly because he was top scorer at this point and I wanted to maximise his goals!) and Jean, a left winger, up front together. They hadn't performed brilliantly as a duo, though they did create some half chances. Maradona surged past my defence and then jinked to the side of my onrushing keeper to give Real the lead, but I equalised after bringing on Romario. He received a cross from Leandro on the left wing (subbed on for Jean) and controlled it before placing it in the corner, despite being closely marked by Bergomi. I was never really in control of the game though, and in extra time it was Real who clinched it; Maradona laid it back to Guti who smashed in a good goal from outside the area, his sixth of the competition and one that made him top scorer. In fact, at the end of the season he was named not only as the player with most goals and assists in the EC, but it's best player as well.

I was one victory short of equalling my best points tally in the league, and in fact came within a minute of losing two games out of the last six. In the end though this was my second season where I remained undefeated in the league.

In the other leagues: Real Madrid won League D a point ahead of Roma, and they won their domestic cup against Juve, confirming a treble success for the Spanish giants. Real had been 1st place in the league for most of the season just ahead of Juve, but in the penultimate game Juve nipped ahead by one point. They evidently lost on the last day though, allowing Real to win and Roma to leapfrog them, taking the other automatic Euro spot. In League A, Chelsea won by a few points clear of AC Milan, and Chelsea won the D1 cup against Milan as well. In League B, PSV took the title ahead of Arsenal, but it was third placed Bayern Munich who won their cup against an opponent from lower mid-table. PSV did a double of sorts, having won the UEFA Cup against Aston Villa.

My top scorer this season was Romario, with a stonking 20 in the league. His nearest league rival was Ronaldhino with a paltry 12. The grand tally was helped by him being my penalty taker, and I have become better at pens in the last couple of seasons (either change aim a lot before quickly slotting it straight down the middle, or aiming just slightly to one side at mid height, so that the ball goes near the side of the net above the ground, quite hard to save). Grafite got 5, Castolo and Falcao 4 each and a few midfielders got similar or slightly lower amounts. Amoroso didn't feature much, and when he did his poor stamina meant he couldn't play often, and he only scored one goal as a result (the acrobatic volley vs Barca), but he played quite well when he was on the field and netted a couple of times in the D1 Cup. Edmundo, the 17 or 18 year old who only joined at Christmas, scored a league goal and three in the European Cup. He seemed to fit into the team very well, playing as either an AMF or CF.

I totted up the career goal/assist stats of some of my more notable players, though unfortunately I only know the assists for the league games which means the full contribution of many second string players (who mostly featured in the cups) is unknown. I also don't know how many games each player featured in, because that is only revealed when a player retires in PES 5.

FORWARDS
Marcio Amoroso: 68 goals (8 of which were in cups), 10 assists
Grafite: 57 goals (10 in cups), 21 assists
Diego Tardelli: 47 goals (28 in cups), 6 assists
Falcão: 43 (17 in cups), 4 assists
Castolo: 45 (26 in cups), 5 assists
Romario: 53 (18 in cups), 4 assists

MIDFIELDERS
Mineiro: 26 (0 in cups), 15 assists
Danilo: 20 (2 in cups), 16 assists
Jadson: 17 (8 in cups), 3 assists
Vélber: 16 (8 in cups), 3 assists
Souza: 19 (10 in cups), 5 assists

DEFENDERS
Cicinho: 20 (1 in cups), 33 assists
 
Fixture 1 Group B is here.

Finland v Denmark (me)
Belgium (me) v Russia


An excellent win for Finland and they really deserved it. I loved the bit right at the end when Larsen cleared it off the line for us. Although it looked like it was hitting the post. In the other match that was an emphatic win for one of the favourites, Belgium. Russia did have their chances though and if they had scored one of their shots it may have been a different result. I loved De Bruyne's goal.
 
geeeeee said:
Fixture 1 Group B is here.

Finland v Denmark (me)
Belgium (me) v Russia


An excellent win for Finland and they really deserved it. I loved the bit right at the end when Larsen cleared it off the line for us. Although it looked like it was hitting the post. In the other match that was an emphatic win for one of the favourites, Belgium. Russia did have their chances though and if they had scored one of their shots it may have been a different result. I loved De Bruyne's goal.
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Nice one. De Bruyne goal was indeed class and Belgium looking the part. The less said about the Russian keeper thebetter!

While we're on Euro 2020...

 
Early PES footy fan said:
so I brought on the tall keeper in place of the centreback.
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I mean if that's his only purpose otherwise being eternally benched, kinda makes him somewhat... useless. He also had the worst peak on PES 5 out of any player in the default team.

Could be that the Konami's lacking of changing the stats properly after PES 2 to actually accomodate for physics changes affected the defaults rather dramatically on a per-game basis... like, tracing Ivarov's stamina stat of 78 goes back to a time where the stamina stat affected the GK much more drastically (PES 3), where it was set to 80. For reference, most other GK's in later games had theirs set around 60ish if memory serves me right.

Most of the default players had their stats fixed at PES 4 era, though those were mostly unchanged from 3, which were slight alterations from 2, which were nerfed from the first game (mostly unchanged from it number-wise but players were rated much lower in PES 1 than 2)
 
Flipper the Priest said:
Nice one. De Bruyne goal was indeed class and Belgium looking the part. The less said about the Russian keeper thebetter!

While we're on Euro 2020...

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I got the idea for EURO 2020 from yourself as I enjoy your videos. So well polished too.

I find it a bit tiring sometimes though, play game, make video, upload. I like watching them back though. :)
 
geeeeee said:
I got the idea for EURO 2020 from yourself as I enjoy your videos. So well polished too.

I find it a bit tiring sometimes though, play game, make video, upload. I like watching them back though. :)
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Thank you!

I know the feeling, it can seem a chore. But it is nice to see them back, have them for posterity and think: "hey, I made that!"

Also nice when people enjoy it and say so, too. I look at the analytics even with my meagre 30-odd subscribers and it's a mad amount of views and time spent watching!
 
flanylla said:
I mean if that's his only purpose otherwise being eternally benched, kinda makes him somewhat... useless. He also had the worst peak on PES 5 out of any player in the default team.

Could be that the Konami's lacking of changing the stats properly after PES 2 to actually accomodate for physics changes affected the defaults rather dramatically on a per-game basis... like, tracing Ivarov's stamina stat of 78 goes back to a time where the stamina stat affected the GK much more drastically (PES 3), where it was set to 80. For reference, most other GK's in later games had theirs set around 60ish if memory serves me right.

Most of the default players had their stats fixed at PES 4 era, though those were mostly unchanged from 3, which were slight alterations from 2, which were nerfed from the first game (mostly unchanged from it number-wise but players were rated much lower in PES 1 than 2)
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That's interesting background about the stats.

When I mounted my defence of Zamenhof, I was being a bit facetious in terms of it being a reason fto value him :P. That is how I genuinely used him on a number of occasions though, and being slightly taller than Lothar I often chose him as my keeper when Ivarov was tired. I always accepted that Zam wasn't very good, and being in his 30s didn't expect him to improve, he is just there as a spare body- therefore, I was never disappointed in him. I was however disappointed with Lothar; the young keeper for the future turns out to reach an early, modest peak and then decline, so he bred resentment in me. Not only does he never get as good as Ivarov, he is in decline before Ivarov generally retires, if I remember rightly, so you need to buy a new keeper for the future. And unlike Zam, his modest height doesn't inspire me to use him as a CB!
 
Meazza84 said:
OMG, it's full of stars! (Valderrama, Hernandez, Stoichkov, Matthaus, Etcheverry )

The hardest Konami PS1 title, it has an additional difficulty level (which I played on). I think all PS1 patches should be made on this game, it's much better than WE 2002.

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Love it. Will watch in full later. It was on my long, long list of potentials for YT!

----

Interested to know some thoughts on an idea I have. I have a vision for a sort of online 'trophy room', where people can record all the trophies they've won in any football game ever made. All your PES, FIFA, Championship Manager, Sensible Soccer, etc silverware.

Things to record: game; trophy; team (should it be only if you use the same team? I think so); difficulty level; time and date; media (screenshots or video). Think I'm missing anything?

Of course if there's mileage and wider interest in this perhaps it could be something bigger and better. Maybe have its own platform. I just think it's a great way to celebrate offline football game in a world of online nonsense. And while I enjoy playing games here and there I enjoy it much more when I'm playing towards something.

For now it's probably going to take the shape of something lame on social media, starting with my Master League D2 Cup win!
 
Flipper the Priest said:
Thank you!

I know the feeling, it can seem a chore. But it is nice to see them back, have them for posterity and think: "hey, I made that!"

Also nice when people enjoy it and say so, too. I look at the analytics even with my meagre 30-odd subscribers and it's a mad amount of views and time spent watching!
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Yes i agree it is good to watch them back. I find i appreciate the CPU goals even more too. Rather than be really annoyed at why my defender didnt react when i’m playing i tend to think well actually that was a good bit of skill by the CPU.

Your meagre 30 subscribers makes my 8 look meagre meagre. Or is it 9, i lost count after 5. :P
Flipper the Priest said:
Love it. Will watch in full later. It was on my long, long list of potentials for YT!

----

Interested to know some thoughts on an idea I have. I have a vision for a sort of online 'trophy room', where people can record all the trophies they've won in any football game ever made. All your PES, FIFA, Championship Manager, Sensible Soccer, etc silverware.

Things to record: game; trophy; team (should it be only if you use the same team? I think so); difficulty level; time and date; media (screenshots or video). Think I'm missing anything?

Of course if there's mileage and wider interest in this perhaps it could be something bigger and better. Maybe have its own platform. I just think it's a great way to celebrate offline football game in a world of online nonsense. And while I enjoy playing games here and there I enjoy it much more when I'm playing towards something.

For now it's probably going to take the shape of something lame on social media, starting with my Master League D2 Cup win!
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Sounds like a good idea although i havent won anything in recent years. On a side note, I wish the goal of the week would come back.

Two more excellent games here as we move in to Group C Fixture 1.

Austria (me) v Serbia, who replaced North Macedonia because they are not in the game. I picked Serbia because they were the highest non qualifying FIFA ranked European team.

Ukraine v The Netherlands (me)

Enjoy!



Well done Serbia who were without Mitrovic. I found them really tough to break down. Can they do a Greece? Ukraine v The Netherlands was a classic. I thought The Netherlands were going to copy Belgium when they were 3 up but how good was Stepanenko’s goal?! for Ukraine which really kicked off the comeback.
 
Early PES footy fan said:
I was however disappointed with Lothar; the young keeper for the future turns out to reach an early, modest peak and then decline, so he bred resentment in me. Not only does he never get as good as Ivarov, he is in decline before Ivarov generally retires, if I remember rightly, so you need to buy a new keeper for the future. And unlike Zam, his modest height doesn't inspire me to use him as a CB!
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Yeah, he never really lives up even to Kelsen on this regard I guess. Thanks for the remarks on the stats history though.
 
Early PES footy fan said:
That's a really good point, why not use WE for the Euro market? Presumably they would have consulted non-Japanese people on this; it seems quite intuitive to me that eleven gives a clue to what the game will be about, and it's a simple message- it's like saying "The best team!". I think Winning Eleven is a better name than Pro Evolution Soccer, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense in English, now I think about it. In fact it sounds like the sort of lost in translation version of something that presumably sounds better in Japanese. That was definitely the case in the commentary of the first Pro Evo, when we had great lines such as "The wind is whistling through the stadium" (I wouldn't want it any other way!).
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The sun's beating down but the wind is shooting through the stadium.
Yeah, while it's pissing down at night. Definitely bright and sunny.

Anyway, I'd like to point out that majority of game testing, localisation, etc. for JDM games (for lack of a better acronym, haha) tended back then to be done purely by Americans and tailored for a US-centric market. European branches tend to only really deal with the bare minimum when it comes to actual games (mainly distribution), at least back then. The Japanese also were/are xenophobic towards most countries except the USA for some reason, which goes some part to explain why many text-heavy games never made it over here - it was only because of the internet why the likes of JRPGs and anime games even really started to make their way to Europe (and even then, those seemed to go through much less 'PAL optimisation' and much more delays than any other genre)
 
There's one line that's clearly contextual in PES6 but is obviously not triggered correctly that really annoys me.


First shot of the game, a tame effort that the goalie throws his cap on.

Brackley: They must be wondering what they have to do to beat the keeper today

( I think there's a line before it about the keeper saving the shot - in fact it might be Trevor that says the first line then Peter Brackley responds with that line)
 
Flipper the Priest said:
[silence]

[shot taken]

[silence]

[shot goes wide]

"I tell a lie, he's missed"
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:D I can't remember that one, which game is it from? I've noticed in PES 5 that, though there are none of the bizarre, presumably lost-in-translation oddities of the earliest PES titles, so many remarks are at odds with what actually happened. Especially Trevor Brooking's remarks. If he says it's a good cross, it's 10 yards from any of my players! There are a few lines he does like that, and I often wonder whether they are intentionally wrong for humourous purposes.
 
mattmid said:
There's one line that's clearly contextual in PES6 but is obviously not triggered correctly that really annoys me.


First shot of the game, a tame effort that the goalie throws his cap on.

Brackley: They must be wondering what they have to do to beat the keeper today

( I think there's a line before it about the keeper saving the shot - in fact it might be Trevor that says the first line then Peter Brackley responds with that line)
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I think you're right, I think Trevor says it was an easy save or something to that effect, then Peter says the line you quoted, totally contradictory!
 
Early PES footy fan said:
:D I can't remember that one, which game is it from?
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2 or 3, I think. I'm pretty sure in 2 he also has one or two shrieks he just comes out with now and then.

I've searched before but found no answer. Does Chris James and Martin Williams, Brackley's predecessors, even exist? Or were they just voice actors? I see no trace of journalists or broadcasters by those names.

And we haven't even started on ISS Pro...
 
Titch said:
We complain about it, but would we really have it any other way? 😂
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I think I'm one of the few who would say "I definitely would" to this.

I realise I may be in a minority, but I have no fond nostalgic feelings about "CELERY! CELERY!" or being forcibly locked to the original ML players. Those things were crap then and they're crap now.

(In an attempt to provide evidence of this - in PES 2021, do you choose to play as the "ML default" players, and do you look at the banners that say "WE'RE HERE TO WIN" and think they're great? I would bet the answers are "no" and "hell no".)

They may remind you of a better time, but those times wouldn't have been ruined if the banners didn't say stupid things.
 
Flipper the Priest said:
If this was the sentiment for the PS1 and PS2, no-one told the commentary guys.
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Heh LOL.

Honestly. is Brackley/Brooking even really present in the first few games they were in or were Konami using snippets as some kind of TTS?

Their intonation is horribly robotic in PES 2 and 3 for the most part (particularly the former) yet in PES 4, quite a few - but not all - of the commentary lines and names were re-recorded and sound much more natural for then most part. However it's really easy to spot a PES 3 and PES 4 line from one another due to the intonation being strikingly different - there's also one carried over which was partly chopped off (something along the lines of "PB: Who do you think he's gonna aim for? TB: Well he has a few choices in the box", but in PES 4 the actual question is chopped off and it makes literally no sense)

I also noticed a lot of the 'player-specific' commentary lines from PES 2 would easily have worked neutrally but are unused unless the player sets the commentary to be biased for or against the player.
 
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