Microsoft Xbox

[slamsoze]

...

I hope their controllers have better build quality this time as well - I bought an XB1 Elite controller a while ago and within a few months the rubber grips had fallen off, the sticks were drifting and the A button was double pressing. Not good for something with an RRP over £150.

Is this a new trend, that the controllers durability regreses every new generation? I have already two problematic PS4 Dualshocks since 2017, two half decent XBOX360 for Windows controllers since 2015, that are OK-ish but the triggers springs do a clunky sound, which seems they will loose their flexibility over time and i have read ( i do not own one) many complains about the XBOX elite controllers, which are supposed to be super-superior considering their price , more than 100$.

In the meantime i have a 15 years old Logitech, having played with it more than 5.000 hours for sure, almost all the era between PES 3 and PES 2013, and it has got beaten by my friends , during the college tournaments, in any possible way, catapult throw, lasso throw, stone throw. They only attack it has not conceaded , is slam it with a hammer. But it still plays until today, and it costed only 50$ back then.

I assume that building expendable peripherals, like controllers, is the way for cheap profuction cost and a reason to do after market sales or services.

TL;DR: Seems that as back we go to the past, to previous generations, the controllers seem to be more durable. It is of my biggest complaint, as i can feel the light durability, in more modern peripheral-hardware coming with consoles They really don't build them like they used to..

 

[PRO_TOO]

If this is what industry people are saying:



...I think those of us looking for truly evolved games (and not just games built for the lowest common denominator, then ported) are going to get dumped on.

Casual gamers, and cross-play, are the priorities here. You can't cross-play if the game on the lowest-powered system has "physics model A", and the game on the high-powered system has "physics model B"...

They both use the same processor, granted, but there's still a significant power difference between the two when you're taking everything into the equation.

I've been toying with the idea of building a super-powered PC, but what's the point when the games I'd be buying it for - football games - are built for the base versions of the consoles? I may as well just get a console. And sigh.

 

[OPM]

Is there any info about the series x gamepad?
Same as One? Elite pad?

 

[PRO_TOO]

Usually this source is reliable, afaik.

 

[el niche]

Interesting and a bit weird article, but how is this different than when MS releases the Xbox One X while they still have the Xbox One and One S for sale. Or Sony releases the PS4 Pro when then PS4 is out as well....

“Unfortunately, Microsoft has created a confusing mess. They let leaks take over the official story and right now the professionals are confused" . I thought they released the teaser with the specs, I think they even have a comparison with the XBSX....

“Unfortunately, everything else is clearly in favour of the PlayStation 5. Microsoft lost control of the media message and it is looking like PS5 will be the system for those that want to play exciting new games.” But Sony hasn't given all the details yet (such as price).

I really hope Sony releases more information soon, nothing better for consumers than some good ol' competition.

 

[Isslander]

If Sony have no differences between the two models, apart from the disk drive, they can charge more and still come out on top. Exciting times, I hope both Xbox and the Playstation fare well this generation.

 

[el niche]

If Sony have no differences between the two models, apart from the disk drive, they can charge more and still come out on top. Exciting times, I hope both Xbox and the Playstation fare well this generation.

Completely agree. Sony brand is incredibly strong and they can totally do it. I think they will price at 399 and 499, but I don't think it would be good if they price it over 499 (doubt they do that). Hopefully they learned from the PS3 launch price... They might even surprise and undercut Series X price... Who knows, all the buzz in now in Microsoft, hopefully Sony joins in soon. I also hope they invest in PSNow in this Gen....

 

[rojofa]

Interesting and a bit weird article, but how is this different than when MS releases the Xbox One X while they still have the Xbox One and One S for sale. Or Sony releases the PS4 Pro when then PS4 is out as well....

“Unfortunately, Microsoft has created a confusing mess. They let leaks take over the official story and right now the professionals are confused" . I thought they released the teaser with the specs, I think they even have a comparison with the XBSX....

“Unfortunately, everything else is clearly in favour of the PlayStation 5. Microsoft lost control of the media message and it is looking like PS5 will be the system for those that want to play exciting new games.” But Sony hasn't given all the details yet (such as price).

I really hope Sony releases more information soon, nothing better for consumers than some good ol' competition.

It's different because they released the Xbox One and PS4 first, and then Xbox One X and PS4 Pro like 3 years later. Developers went into next-gen knowing what the baseline lowest specs were (Xbox One) and there didn't seem to be plans at that time for an upgraded console.

Everyone knew the Xbox One X and PS4 Pro were just for graphical/framerate improvements to the same games. Imagine if they had brought out a XB1 S back in 2013 with even lesser specs than the XB1. All the games would have had to have been "optimised" (aka downgraded) to run at 30fps on that worse console for the whole generation and/or just less ambitious in their scope for player count/physics etc for the whole generation.

I wouldn't mind if it was the same situation this time, where they released an upgraded console in 3 years time for graphical improvements, but to immediately release a downgraded one just lowers the bar. Last gen the bar didn't get lowered (but it was pretty low to start with) and the upgraded ones just added some nicer visuals.

 

[PRO_TOO]

 

[el niche]

Everyone knew the Xbox One X and PS4 Pro were just for graphical/framerate improvements to the same games.

But that's making the same assumption the article is saying: "Everyone knew they were just..." could be applied to "everyone knows what the series S is capable of...". How do you know "everyone knew". And how do you know with this release "Nobody knows/ is confused..."

I keep seeing it as a PC game release.... Cyberpunk is to be released and everything they show us is running on the latest hardware, but nobody is saying its not optimized because they have to release so someone with a 2013 potato can play it with lower framerate. They release the game and if you have the hardware the game adjusts.

I know where you are coming from, believe me.... I think we are just looking at it from different points of views.

 

[rojofa]

But that's making the same assumption the article is saying: "Everyone knew they were just..." could be applied to "everyone knows what the series S is capable of...". How do you know "everyone knew". And how do you know with this release "Nobody knows/ is confused..."

I keep seeing it as a PC game release.... Cyberpunk is to be released and everything they show us is running on the latest hardware, but nobody is saying its not optimized because they have to release so someone with a 2013 potato can play it with lower framerate. They release the game and if you have the hardware the game adjusts.

I know where you are coming from, believe me.... I think we are just looking at it from different points of views.

I don't see where any confusion or disagreement is coming from honestly.

Of course everyone knew the XB1X and PS4 Pro were just going to be visual upgrades. The games were usually designed to run 30fps on the original consoles with whatever physics/AI/player counts they were capable of and just given higher resolution, framerate and/or higher settings on XB1X and PS4 Pro when it released 3 years later.

I'm not saying with this release "nobody knows" about anything. Now developers know they have a lower minimum spec to aim for, that's the whole issue. Developers have a lesser scope for what they can do with their games now Series S exists than if PS5 was the lowest spec next-gen console.

Specific examples of games like Cyberpunk don't really tell us anything. Not all games can be just downgraded graphically until they become playable. How would it go trying to release it or FS2020 on 360 level specs? If it could even run it would be like 5fps/480p... What about towards the end of the generation in 2026, do we still want games only being advanced enough to still be playable at 1080p on a 2013 PC? Towards the middle/end of the generation as they leave last-gen and older PC hardware behind, games should move their minimum specs on more and more.

What if a theoretical football game used physics simulation for player movement and it could only be optimised to 30fps on Series X. On Series S it would be unplayable so it wouldn't get released. I'm not talking about any existing games, especially Cyberpunk which is a current-gen game anyway, I mean stuff that is literally impossible/unseen on this gen. Isn't that the whole reason for getting next-gen consoles, to see games do new things? We should want the jump in power to be as big as possible from one generation to the next to enable that.

 

[rojofa]

Is this a new trend, that the controllers durability regreses every new generation? I have already two problematic PS4 Dualshocks since 2017, two half decent XBOX360 for Windows controllers since 2015, that are OK-ish but the triggers springs do a clunky sound, which seems they will loose their flexibility over time and i have read ( i do not own one) many complains about the XBOX elite controllers, which are supposed to be super-superior considering their price , more than 100$.

In the meantime i have a 15 years old Logitech, having played with it more than 5.000 hours for sure, almost all the era between PES 3 and PES 2013, and it has got beaten by my friends , during the college tournaments, in any possible way, catapult throw, lasso throw, stone throw. They only attack it has not conceaded , is slam it with a hammer. But it still plays until today, and it costed only 50$ back then.

I assume that building expendable peripherals, like controllers, is the way for cheap profuction cost and a reason to do after market sales or services.

TL;DR: Seems that as back we go to the past, to previous generations, the controllers seem to be more durable. It is of my biggest complaint, as i can feel the light durability, in more modern peripheral-hardware coming with consoles They really don't build them like they used to..

It seems that way I got that Elite controller when my wired 360 pad was starting to wear out after around 10 years thinking for the price it would last at least as long... It's still usable in most games but have to switch to my Steam controller in some because of the dodgy A button.

It's not even like I just got a rare faulty one, the issues were widespread on them;

Hopefully next-gen will bring better build quality controllers, but there doesn't seem any good reason to expect that these days.

 

[Gunslinger]

Lovely having all this choice of hardware for gaming.

 

[PRO_TOO]

I don't see where any confusion or disagreement is coming from honestly.

Of course everyone knew the XB1X and PS4 Pro were just going to be visual upgrades. The games were usually designed to run 30fps on the original consoles with whatever physics/AI/player counts they were capable of and just given higher resolution, framerate and/or higher settings on XB1X and PS4 Pro when it released 3 years later.

I'm not saying with this release "nobody knows" about anything. Now developers know they have a lower minimum spec to aim for, that's the whole issue. Developers have a lesser scope for what they can do with their games now Series S exists than if PS5 was the lowest spec next-gen console.

Specific examples of games like Cyberpunk don't really tell us anything. Not all games can be just downgraded graphically until they become playable. How would it go trying to release it or FS2020 on 360 level specs? If it could even run it would be like 5fps/480p... What about towards the end of the generation in 2026, do we still want games only being advanced enough to still be playable at 1080p on a 2013 PC? Towards the middle/end of the generation as they leave last-gen and older PC hardware behind, games should move their minimum specs on more and more.

What if a theoretical football game used physics simulation for player movement and it was 30fps on Series X. On Series S it would be unplayable so it wouldn't get released. I'm not talking about any existing games, especially Cyberpunk which is a current-gen game anyway, I mean stuff that is literally impossible/unseen on this gen. Isn't that the whole reason for getting next-gen consoles, to see games do new things? We should want the jump in power to be as big as possible from one generation to the next to enable that.

So can a game become next gen via an update? What do you think? When developers had next gen tech in mind or available or assets of the game where designed to be scaleable for the future...

 

[jaygrim]

So can a game become next gen via an update? What do you think? When developers had next gen tech in mind or available or assets of the game where designed to be scaleable for the future...

Isn't that what they are doing with Valhalla and cyberpunk on series x?

 

[Riscas]

My game pass Ultimate is just about to end,had 18 months of converted Live gold ,and will get the normal game pass from October,if I hadn't had a year worth of EA play left,I'd deffo go back to ultimate again.

I think it's still possible to convert gold in ultimate a second time, after the subscription is over you buy the gold you want (maximum 3 years) and then buy a month of ultimate full price (13.99?). At least a few months back, I read that.

 

[rockstrongo]

I think it's still possible to convert gold in ultimate a second time, after the subscription is over you buy the gold you want (maximum 3 years) and then buy a month of ultimate full price (13.99?). At least a few months back, I read that.

That's a good idea,thanks buddy.
I'm going to look in to that for sure when it expires.
Might go for the full 3 years if it's possible.
Appreciate it man!

 

[PRO_TOO]

Launch games:

November 10

Assassin’s Creed: Valhalla (4K Ultra HD, HDR, 60 FPS, Smart Delivery)
Dirt 5 (4K Ultra HD, HDR, 120 FPS, Smart Delivery)
The Falconeer (4K Ultra HD, HDR, 60 FPS, Smart Delivery)
FIFA 21 (4K Ultra HD, HDR, 60 FPS, Dual Entitlement)
Forza Horizon 4 (4K Ultra HD, HDR, 60 FPS, Smart Delivery, Game Pass)
Gears 5 (4K Ultra HD, HDR, 120 FPS, Smart Delivery, Game Pass)
Gears Tactics (4K Ultra HD, HDR, 60 FPS, Smart Delivery, Game Pass)
Haven (4K Ultra HD, Game Pass)
Madden NFL 21 (4K Ultra HD, HDR)
Marvel’s Avengers (4K Ultra HD, HDR, 60 FPS, Smart Delivery)
NBA 2K21 (4K Ultra HD, HDR)
Ori and the Will of the Wisps (4K Ultra HD, HDR, 120 FPS, Smart Delivery, Game Pass)
Sea of Thieves (4K Ultra HD, HDR, Smart Delivery, Game Pass)
Tetris Effect: Connected (4K Ultra HD, HDR, 60 FPS, Smart Delivery, Game Pass)
Watch Dogs: Legion (4K Ultra HD, HDR, Ray Tracing, Smart Delivery)
WRC 9 (4K Ultra HD, Smart Delivery)
Yakuza: Like a Dragon (Smart Delivery)

November 13
Call of Duty: Black Ops - Cold War (4K Ultra HD, HDR, 120 FPS, Ray Tracing)

November 17
Fortnite: The Last Laugh (4K Ultra HD)

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/xbox-series-s-x-enhanced-launch-games.1565187/

 

[bsmaff]

All those games are being released on current gen..
And since console gamers always point out "I don't care about graphics" - Why is anyone buying a Xbox Series X at launch?

 

[PRO_TOO]

All those games are being released on current gen..
And since console gamers always point out "I don't care about graphics" - Why is anyone buying a Xbox Series X at launch?

Now spot the exclusive titles!

 

[bsmaff]

I will say though that some of the games are being released at 120FPS where needed.
COD @120FPS - Microsoft are actually building a machine for what gamers need - Just need to buy a new 4K TV that supports 120Hz.

I will be more interested to see what the actual FPS turns out like though when released.
As I suspect Microsoft have listed best case scenary, as I doubt games will be 60FPS with Ray Tracing on.

 

[kamy100]

I think that we now have Microsoft and Sony heading in 2 different directions and it will be good for gaming.

Microsoft - are clearly going down the services and value proposition route. I think the S is going to be their main focus for next generation, the price is compelling and tieing people into the Gamepass model is good for them, whereas Sony are going down the "true" next gen route, focussing on high quality first party exclusives to drive forward their sales.

I think both will be successful.

 

[bsmaff]

I also think the new subscription model done by Xbox is going also going to attract alot of people.

£20.99 for 24 months, for Xbox S with 24 months of Game Pass
£28.99 for 24 months, for Xbox X with 24 months of Game Pass

That is a very good deal and half the price of owning the latest iPhone, I can certainly see 18-25 year olds jumping on the Xbox wagon with the subscription model.

 

[el niche]

What if a theoretical football game used physics simulation for player movement and it could only be optimised to 30fps on Series X. On Series S it would be unplayable so it wouldn't get released. I'm not talking about any existing games, especially Cyberpunk which is a current-gen game anyway, I mean stuff that is literally impossible/unseen on this gen. Isn't that the whole reason for getting next-gen consoles, to see games do new things? We should want the jump in power to be as big as possible from one generation to the next to enable that.

Gotcha, ok I see your point. Would it be fair to say that a PC player should always feel disappointed because developers should use the power available to them already? I mean I'd like them to take the latest Intel processor and the latest NVIDIA card and just show us what games can do with that. Next-gen power is already here, its not coming with these new consoles, and each year the gap increases (developers having to optimize a game that plays on a RTX2080Ti and on a 7 year old PS4). In a couple of years the PS5 and XBXX will probably be underpowered vs a nice PC (if they arent already)

I think you are always gonna have this issue, not only with the Series S, its been going on for a while. Why do companies do it? Well, why develop for one console when you can develop for more and increase the user base=more game sold.

But yeah, you are right, I see how consoles are holding back some progress. I'd also like to be blown away by new tech, so far it hasn't been "woah"

 

[rojofa]

Gotcha, ok I see your point. Would it be fair to say that a PC player should always feel disappointed because developers should use the power available to them already? I mean I'd like them to take the latest Intel processor and the latest NVIDIA card and just show us what games can do with that. Next-gen power is already here, its not coming with these new consoles, and each year the gap increases (developers having to optimize a game that plays on a RTX2080Ti and on a 7 year old PS4). In a couple of years the PS5 and XBXX will probably be underpowered vs a nice PC (if they arent already)

I think you are always gonna have this issue, not only with the Series S, its been going on for a while. Why do companies do it? Well, why develop for one console when you can develop for more and increase the user base=more game sold.

But yeah, you are right, I see how consoles are holding back some progress. I'd also like to be blown away by new tech, so far it hasn't been "woah"

I think we're on the same page, and I agree with everything you say here.

The kind of stuff I'm suggesting would be likely be years away as studios stop releasing their games cross-gen and build them from the ground up specifically for next-gen. Right now when there's still so many customers on XB1/PS4 and older PCs, it's very rare a big studio for a AAA game would abandon the biggest consumer base and develop something they can't run. The only exceptions would be first-party games, third-party subsidised by the console manufacture or long-term/enthusiast products (like FS2020).

As next-gen settles in and takes over as the biggest consumer base, less games will be developed cross-gen and will then be able to set the lowest next-gen specs as the target for playable gameplay. Possibly a bit lower if the average PC specs still haven't caught up yet but it would gradually keep moving forward as more people buy new consoles and upgrade their PCs.

I would expect it to take a few years as the technologies go from academic papers, to prototypes and then implemented into production of AAA games so while the launch lineup doesn't exactly look great, I think there's a lot of potential for next-gen as it is a big leap from current-gen, but there could have been a bit more potential if they didn't release the S.

 

[PRO_TOO]

Developers are having a view on who they cater too, right?! Millions of consoles or mid range PC rigs or 0.01 percent that own a 3090!

 

[bsmaff]

The good news about the Series S is the CPU isn't the be all and end all.
It has been kept incredibly close to the Series X, so I don't really see that much of an issue when it comes to advancements capable in next gen.
But games will have to be developed for next gen only which won't happen for a couple of years.

Graphics are just something that can be tweaked system to system, Xbox runs DX 12 on a custom Windows 10 build.
They are running two PC's effectively and just need to tweak the settings accoridingly.

Next Gen is not like the current gen, where Sony and Microsoft both for some reason decided to use Netbook processors... Processors found in £150 Netbooks.
They were incredibly s**t and extremely underpowered, and they have not made the same mistake this time.

Personally I really don't see an issue with the Series S, I only would of be troubled if they put a poor processor in the machine.

 

[rojofa]

The good news about the Series S is the CPU isn't the be all and end all.
It has been kept incredibly close to the Series X, so I don't really see that much of an issue when it comes to advancements capable in next gen.
But games will have to be developed for next gen only which won't happen for a couple of years.

Graphics are just something that can be tweaked system to system, Xbox runs DX 12 on a custom Windows 10 build.
They are running two PC's effectively and just need to tweak the settings accoridingly.

Next Gen is not like the current gen, where Sony and Microsoft both for some reason decided to use Netbook processors... Processors found in £150 Netbooks.
They were incredibly s**t and extremely underpowered, and they have not made the same mistake this time.

Personally I really don't see an issue with the Series S, I only would of be troubled if they put a poor processor in the machine.

That's all true, but a lot of physics can be done on the GPU so gameplay is not only bound by the CPU power.

 

[bsmaff]

That's all true, but a lot of physics can be done on the GPU so gameplay is not only bound by the CPU power.

Yes but there isn't much wrong with the physics of games these days.
AI is the main thing that has been held back by the current gen and the CPU is to blame for that.

 

[rojofa]

Yes but there isn't much wrong with the physics of games these days.
AI is the main thing that has been held back by the current gen and the CPU is to blame for that.

For me the lack of physics in games is the biggest disappointment for the whole current-gen especially sports games so that was what I hoped would move on the most, and there's a lot of physics stuff that games could simulate better like destruction/deformation, water, hair, clothing etc.