The Retro-PES Corner

I just want to say this thread has inspired me to try and enjoy many different things. I went back to PES 1 on PS2 and I'm admiring its artwork and gameplay, it's as good as a completely new game, I'm loving it. I wish to try every single game in the series and compare its features and details, I want to play with many great and not-so-great teams and take them to victory or bitter defeat.

I also got some ideas for fantasy tournaments, such as all star teams from different regions of a single country (similar to AMADOR, but with real players, for example Lombardia vs Sicily), or regional competitions that don't exist anymore, such as Balkan Cup or completely new competitions like for example a World Cup for continents (Europe vs Africa) or world regions (North Africa vs East Asia or Iberian peninsula vs the Caribbean region). I also invented a new way to make randomized all-time national teams, since it can be boring to always play with best players. So for example you can get a Classic Italy team like this one: Albertosi-Scirea-Ferrara-Pessotto-Facchetti-Tommasi-De Rossi-Candreva-Doni-Del Piero-Schillaci, or a Brazil like this: Dida-T. Silva-Domingos da Guia-Leandro-Maicon-G. Silva-Casemiro-Socrates-Rai-Bebeto-Vava.

I hope to make at least some of those a reality. :)
 
@Meazza84 That's a great idea. Feel free to use the Amador files for that real player region idea. That would be good to see it with real players from the regions, be they present day, or all time or whatever. Be sure to upload the OF in the Amador thread if you ever do that. :)
 
@Madmac79: Even though I've been playing PES5 for a while now, on each game there's always a few of those little, simple moments you speak of that I find worthy of capturing. This is a subtle masterpiece.
Curiously, last night I played Bordeaux - ahem, Aquitaine! - and just like on our first match on the first half of the season, Smicer got injured. :D

Ah yes, Couto played for Lazio! What an amazing team he was part of back then. "This" Couto is on his pre-retirement tour already; I remember he had a superb statsheet with 91 Defense on PES3 and got downgraded to hell in PES4; in PES5 he starts with only 80 DEF (which quickly became a 79 once the ML started). You can still see flashes of his former brilliance but he's aging much worse than Jorge Costa, who in real life I always thought to be much inferior to Couto.

Appreciate the info about transfers. The AI seems to be as active on CPU-CPU deals as in PES6, which is nice, and I've seen some pretty realistic deals like Simão Sabrosa (Benfica) going to Arsenal. I played through the winter transfer market and only one of my players had an offer: I put one of my reserve CBs on the transfer list and on the very next week he had a loan offer from Fohlen (Borussia Monchengladbach), which curiously is the club he plays for on the PES5 database. I tried to move a few other reserves of mine but got no offers whatsoever.

@mattmid: :SHOCK: Have you discovered a new skill? I've never seen that move before. It's amazing how after so many years we still find new things about these games.

@Meazza84: Well, it's exactly because of what you're saying that I'm speechless when people say that because they don't like/are through with modern PES or FIFA, they don't have "any football game to play". There are dozens of great PESs, each with its own particular depiction of football, each with different teams/rosters; plus one even has patches that recreate football ranging from the last century to the present day, from well-known leagues to the ones we did on Project Odyssey like Iceland or the 2nd Danish division, or even fantasy ones like AMADOR. Damn it, if this isn't enough entertainment to last you for a couple of lifetimes, then I don't know what will...

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I've been having a very specific issue on my PES5 ML adventure, one that I don't think I've ever came upon in this series.
My goalkeeper is Moreira, a decent GK except for his Balance (78): 81 DEF, 86 Response, 80-something GK skills. Good enough for the D2, anyway. However, we've been conceding a lot of goals due to lack of communication between the defensive line and the keeper. Yes, this is a 15-year-old game reproducing a complex footballing concept. I have now understood what was causing it: the Teamwork stat.

Jorge Costa is the only member on my defense with an impressive TW (81, I believe). Couto's is decent but Amequis and Areias' are poor, as well as...Moreira's, with just 67 TW. An example of what happens ingame: last night I conceded one goal in which the ball is crossed from the opp.'s right side, Amequis the RB and Moreira both first decide to try to intercept the ball, then both stay put, each pulling off some very realistic micro-reactions in the process as if to reproduce their indecisiveness ("shall I go or you go? I will!...Ok, you go. But what if I...No, you. Me?..."). In the end, neither goes for the ball and the opportune striker hits it and scores.

Interestingly, pissed off with Moreira after conceding on bunch of variations of this particular "scene", I decide to start Perali instead, who'd be a good goalkeeper if he combined his +80 DEF and Response with better GK Skills (just 72). However, he's got about (only) 5 points more TW than Moreira, and the difference when he's on the pitch is night and day when it comes to communicating well with the defensive line. We're talking about an attribute that I don't think even exists on modern PES and how just 5 TW points can have such an impact. It goes to show how much depth this game has.

I'm in a dilemma now: should I play Moreira, who's only 23 and might evolve into a very good goalkeeper, despite his TW; or play 30-year-old Perali who's never going to improve that horrible GK Skills stat but has slightly better TW, and because of that concedes less "stupid" goals, whilst conceding some less stupid ones that Moreira effortlessly saves?
 
@miguelfcp I had to pause the game straight away in disbelief. I honestly thought I had imagined it! I reviewed the replay (buying time whilst my midfielder paid to get back in :D ) and sure enough the AI player had done what I thought I'd seen. An outrageous bit of skill. I need to look up his ID and see who he is in the default game.

Just had a look he's 2509 which according to a default csv dump makes him Bakayoko of Piacenza. Can't see it being a special move just for him then.
 
@miguelfcp I think the beginning of a medium/bad team ML in Pes 5 is really near the ultimate footballing experience, as the bad alchemy of your squad plus the bad/not super good ratings of your players makes you worry for your defense quite a lot (unfortunately, way more than you'll worry later on).

However, I'd personally stick with the experienced wolf for the promotion, maybe using the young cub here and there, than switch places in Div 1.

@mattmid outstanding! I think I saw similar feints in the Ps3 era, however it's the first time I see it in Ps2 Pes and by the runaround ending it looks even more complex. Those games never cease to amaze.
 
@miguelfcp That's really interesting about your goal keeper conundrum. I am always fascinated with how the stats affect on field performance in the classic PES games.

Is there a consensus on what attributes matter for a keeper? And what of each of those specific attribute affect live gameplay.

So obviously the GK skill is important, but I wonder how balance, response time, defense, and GK ability all intertwine with each other? Plus, the issue you brought up regarding TW with the defenders and how all that plays out. Quite in-depth indeed...
 
I think TW is one of the important stats for a keeper and any defender since it basically means positioning on the field/between the goalposts. I used to think that DF stat is responsible for that but now I think TW is the stat that does it and that DF only means how good a player is at taking possession of the ball from the opposition.
 
Special4988 said:
@miguelfcp That's really interesting about your goal keeper conundrum. I am always fascinated with how the stats affect on field performance in the classic PES games.

Is there a consensus on what attributes matter for a keeper? And what of each of those specific attribute affect live gameplay.

So obviously the GK skill is important, but I wonder how balance, response time, defense, and GK ability all intertwine with each other? Plus, the issue you brought up regarding TW with the defenders and how all that plays out. Quite in-depth indeed...
Click to expand...
From a modified stats PES OF i had on pes6, which had much increased difficulty, GKs we xcept for the obvious GK, DEF stats, they had increased AGILITY and RESPONSE. In the current OF they were very robotic, superhuman like.But if the modifications are proper, it seemed to me that those teo stats also affect the GK performance.
 
Yes the TW stat is really important and works very well when trying to build a good ML team. On the Formation screen you can press, i think, either R1 or R2 and it will show you how well the selected player will work with others depending on each player’s TW stat.

The newer games have Team Spirit which does not work well whereas TW works perfectly.

It is also one of the reasons that the CPU attacks better if all player’s TW in PES5 are increased by about 15 points. ;)
 
Meazza84 said:
That's what I did for my WE9 1930 and 1934 World Cup patches to improve the gameplay. The CPU attacked better but it also defended better so it looks more like a game of football IMO.
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Yes it improves them all over the pitch. :)

I love the fact that having someone with low TW only really affects the players that interact with him on the pitch rather than the whole team. You can have someone who has high stats in passing, dribbling etc... but have low TW. Because of that he can struggle to fit in but will still show glimpses of brilliance. What is good is that once his TW begins to rise then the link up play is better.

As i said before, this is so much better than the Team Spirit in the newer games. In the newer games if Team Spirit is low then suddenly easy chances are missed, everyone feels like they are running in mud. But in retroPES, if your right back has low TW, yes it will be a struggle to defend some situations or building attacks on the right, but at least your prolific goalscorer will still be able to find the net. ;)
 
geeeeee said:
I love the fact that having someone with low TW only really affects the players that interact with him on the pitch rather than the whole team. You can have someone who has high stats in passing, dribbling etc... but have low TW. Because of that he can struggle to fit in but will still show glimpses of brilliance. What is good is that once his TW begins to rise then the link up play is better.
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And as we know this brilliantly simulates a new signing(s) coming into the team with him(them) taking time to adjust to new team mates.
 
I still believe DEF impacts how well the keeper is positioned between the posts though. Then you have GK Skills to take care of the quality of the save itself; that guy Perali I spoke of (Nelson Pereira, from Sporting Portugal) is the quintessential example of this dichotomy: he's almost always well-positioned (83 DEF now), has decent Response and all that but the quality of his saves is very poor.

As for Balance, given there aren't many physical contacts between the keeper and other players, I wonder whether it affects more the keeper's composure, particularly when dealing with aerial balls. Usually keepers on classic-PES have +80 Balance, so my Moreira with just 78 (and more DEF than BAL, with is uncommon) is a rarity on that regard. I remember he wasn't that brilliant in real life on those situations, another reason why he was considered a young, Portuguese Casillas. In PES5, he's not that gifted on the aerial game despite having good DEF/RES/Jump and even Agility.

@Madmac79: I'm inclined to keep this core of players for as long as I can. Maybe I'll decide on a salary cap and try for more realistic signings, such as focusing on getting ageing former Portuguese stars like I did with Fernando Couto and Capucho. That'll keep things interesting.
 
Just a heads up for anyone interested. I've finally posted my 79-80 English First Division OF for PES6 (complete with absolutely amazing kits made by @sniglet) in the Project Odyssey Retro thread.

The teams are down the bottom end of the OF (the rest of it is the original pes6 file) They are the last 24 teams in the list, starting with Arsenal and ending with Wolves. Of course PES of the time only allowed 20 team Leagues which is a shame but it is what it is.

Post is here... https://evo-web.co.uk/threads/project-odyssey-retro.80177/#post-3509853
 
Been enjoying your vids @Meazza84 , Euro 2000 seems to be a beloved tournament by those that experienced it in real time and a spot of sentiment. Euro 2004 was my first Euro's so i love that tournament dearly, Though what i like the most about those two tournaments from retrospective footage and photographic standpoint is how unique they both looked.

They both had real dusk-summer time feel, Golden sun beating down on the stands, The hazy hue of the sky...

It was both luscious and euphoric to look at combined with the festival of football atmosphere. It just doesn't seem the same or is it just me? Or is it dare i say it; Footballing nostalgia...?

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I'm wrapping up my CL this week and with it will be a stiff bloody drink and a "see you later; but not goodbye" for PES 6.

I gotta see what the world of PES has to offer (Though i already know but i want to know MORE!)

So here's the Quarter Finals: Second Leg & The Semi Finals: First Leg (With a couple of utterly filthy goals by the CPU)

Semi Final: Second Leg will be uploaded tomorrow night and the Final on Sunday, Phew.


 
Man, you are something of a poet as well. :) I feel the same way; France 98 and Euro 2000 for me are festivals of bright colors and joy, a total contrast to 2002 World Cup which was... humid, hazy, even dystopic. And we can hear it in the official anthems too: La Copa de la Vida and Campione versus Vangelis. Sadly, I never saw Euro 2004, have been planning to check it out soon.

(Can't wait to see the next CL semifinals video.) :BSCARF:
 
@MafiaMurderBag - Only just got into your vids. Great stuff. Some of your commentary really raises a much needed smile at this time.

Almost at the end of my sixth season of ML on PES 2008 (PS2). I've ramped up the difficulty at the end of last season by imposing a wage cap which saw four or five of my best players released. I'd rather have sold them but STILL no offers even in this classic era ML.

This season has been a struggle with only youth players signed to replace the outgoing stars. We had a horrible run around the halfway point, slipping from top six to three points off the bottom two! Rallied and now need to make up four points in the last four games to qualify for Europe again. No hope of silverware this season.

PES 2008 is certainly a great game - a lost game for many given it was the year many (including myself) switched to the PS3 version. PES 2008 (PS2) is a great mix of the epic PES5 and the sexy but a little easy PES6. Really enjoy the way the AI attacks on this one.
 
@reinelt97 Yes, PES 6 is one of the weaker classic PES games out of the box IMO but comes into its own with the right mods and patches. There's a decent game in there, you just gotta work a little harder to discover it. Take @MafiaMurderBag's videos for example, he sure as hell ain't getting an easy ride there. And yes, his videos are brilliant. What an El Clasico that was haha. I'm currently playing the Amador patch and really enjoying it. Glad you're enjoying PES 2008 as well. Can't wait for @geeeeee to release the OF he's working on.
 
@Lexypoooo - I'm playing old skool style, on a PS2 via a CRT so no patches for me. I'm not even sure I can load an option file. Back in the day, we used to use one of those Max Drive things but unless there's a new method, I'm just doing my own edits. Luckily I still have my original and fully edited PES5 and PES6 option file.
 
Lexypoooo said:
@reinelt97 Not sure if you know about the latest Laziale OF/patch for 2008 on PS2/PSP but you should be able to install that. It's really impressive and in .max format. @geeeeee plays it on the console so I'm sure he'll let you know how to install it.
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Can this option file be played on an emulator or do you need to own the console? I've never played PES 2008 before. How do you insert an option file in the iso file?
 
@Lexypoooo Thanks a million. So far I have only used ready-made ISO files for my emulator.


Now I'm glad to say Matchday 2 is over in all groups and the final one is going to start soon.

Warning! Some MAJOR damage done here. Recommended to all Les Bleus fans.



As for the hosts, they didn't manage to beat a solid Danish side.




And to sum it all up, here are all the goals in this match day. There are many more now as I have improved my play significantly. Watching my own replays has helped me play faster and shoot better.

 
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